Stem Cell Research and the Slaughter of the Innocents

[jbeukema]

I support stem cell research, because it could bring us great leaps in medicine

I support protecting the fundamental right to live

I realize that there are other ways the get the cells that could bring these changes, including

line-specific post-stem cells (http://www.isscr.org/science/faq.htm#5)

Unblical Cord Blood (http://www.isscr.org/science/faq.htm#10)

and adults (http://stemcells.nih.gov/info/basics/basics4.asp)


Do not be fooled; Obama and the others on the Blue Left want to use 'stem cell research' and the laws they're planning to change this week as a means of legalizing the 'abortion' of human life- they are motivated by their twisted views of human life as a punishment comparable to an STD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbZJYWjkAPo) and an easy out-no matter how far into the pregnancy they may be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fi6SEW98ocw&feature=related)- not by any motivation to help to human race

They must be called out on this; we cannot afford to give them so much as an inch in the struggle to protect the life of a human child from these monsters who would put their power and their socialist dream state before even human life

Obama opposed the partial-birth abortion ban
obama values his power and his dreamstate over your life
and the lives of your children

[i_love_being_so_wicked]

I think that partial birth abortions should be made illegal, but I don't think you should be able to take away access to abortions completely. I think the should be allowed within the first 3 months of the pregnancy but after that they should be made illegal for a pregnancy that is farther along than the 1st trimester. Sometimes women have health problems and having an abortion is necessary for their health. Also in the case of rape or incest I know that I would not want to have that baby and no one should be able to force me to. There are just some cases that you need to respect a woman's right to choose whether or not she is able to carry a child to term. No one is going to be able to take that right away ever because if you do then people are still going to do them illegally and they won't be as safe and clean.

[jbeukema]

think the should be allowed within the first 3 months of the pregnancy but after that they should be made illegal for a pregnancy that is farther along than the 1st trimester.

Explain to me exactly by what criterion a child is non-life a two months, 29 days, 23 hours, 59 minutes, and 59 seconds, and life at 3 months


Sometimes women have health problems and having an abortion is necessary for their health
If the lives of mother and child are at risk (eg: ectopic pregnancy) then the duty of a doctor is to preserve life. If it comes down to two deaths versus saving one life, then that decision must be made


[/QUOTE
Also in the case of rape or incest I know that I would not want to have that baby and no one should be able to force me to.]
The first and foremost right of all people is to live. This right must not be infringed for anybody's convenience. The door you open quickly becomes 'suffering and illness.' That. in turn comes to include stress, depression, an uncertainty.

[QUOTE] There are just some cases that you need to respect a woman's right to choose whether or not she is able to carry a child to term.
You do not 'choose' your ability to do anything. What about a man's right to have your child killed because he doesn't want to rear his kid or pay child support. How is there any difference? Convenience is convenience, and a life is a life


No one is going to be able to take that right away ever because if you do then people are still going to do them illegally and they won't be as safe and clean.
Then let's legalize meth, because people make it out if wasp repellent.

a>people do things
b>making it illegal to do them does not stop them
c>they will then not follow any safety procedures
d>then it should be legal


that makes a LOT of sense. If you shove a coathanger inside you, and you puncture a vein and die, that's you're own fault and problem, just like someone who blows their arm off playing w/ illegal explosives

[i_love_being_so_wicked]

My criteria for a fetus too far along to be aborted is after the first trimester. When to pinpoint when a fetus should be considered too far developed to be aborted, well that is a very tricky thing among different religions and cultures. Some people don't believe that a fetus is a child until it is able to survive outside its mother's womb on its own. Many Jewish people, refer to a baby as a fetus until it is born because they don't believe a child has a soul until it is born alive.

My point is that you don't have the right to tell women that they have to carry a child to term. The decision to get an abortion will always rest with the woman who is carrying that child because she is the one who has to suffer the consequences that pregnancy has upon a woman's health or body. I don't think any man should have the right to tell a woman that she should have a child that she doesn't want. There are plenty of children in the world who live in squalor and don't have homes and they die everyday. Why make someone bring another one into the world when it may be abandoned too? There are too many people in this world already. Plus a fetus technically has no rights since it is not even born yet or old enough to vote.

You have your opinion and I have mine. There is nothing that you could say to make me change my mind about abortion. I know abortion is a necessary evil to some people but you have no say in the matter. So go take your high and mighty morals elsewhere.

Also, I do think all drugs should be legalized. I think that if people want to take drugs and possibly kill themselves then so be it. I think the government could make a killing by taxing the purchase of these drugs.

I am a true Conservative. I believe that the government should be small and not be restricting an individual's rights over their own body. A true Conservative would respect the rights of others and work to protect them and not try to limit the rights of others. This includes letting homosexuals get married too because they deserve to have the same options that everyone else in this country has when it comes to happiness and life. The Republican party is never going to regain its past glory until they reform and start going back to the core values that this country was founded on.

[jbeukema]

you don't have any right to end a life for your own convenience. the right to exist > ayour damned convenience

Anyone who killed my child would find theirself suffering a very slow and painful death



Plus a fetus technically has no rights since it is not ...old enough to vote.

Then i can rape and kill any seventeen-year bitch I want? WOOHOO!

You are no conservative. A conservative recognizes that ALL other rights stem from and are dependent upon the right to live

[jbeukema]

I don't think anyone with a screenname such as yours, which makes such an announcement, can really expect to be taken seriously on any such matter

the whole anti-life movement and its laws are built upon lies and perjury (http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-404970_ITM)

[i_love_being_so_wicked]

Yes, I am a Conservative. I just respect the rights of others unlike you. If you were a true Conservative, you would not be trying to promote the government putting restrictions like anti-abortion laws out there. I think you are an ass. I don't know where you get your reasoning. In all of your posts, you just act like a Mr. Know It All, when in fact you know nothing and you hardly contribute anything to a discussion. Why are you talking about killing seventeen year old's too? One she was already born. Two she is not a fetus that some woman is carrying. I don't know what kind of analogy you are trying to make but it does not make sense. You are an idiot. You are nothing but an incompetent moron. Also, if a woman was pregnant with your child and aborted it, you probably would never know that it happened. You could do nothing about it and you would be the one to end up in jail if you did kill her. I'm not saying anything else on this subject because your responses will be asinine and worthless. You need to respect that not everyone shares the same opinion as you on abortion and you will never have any say in the matter. The government is never going to take that right away because too many people would be outraged. That is all I have to say.

[jbeukema]

I don't think anyone with a screenname such as yours, which makes such an announcement, can really expect to be taken seriously on any such matter

the whole anti-life movement and its laws are built upon lies and perjury (http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-404970_ITM)

Ironically, Mccorvey had her child, opted for adoption, and lived happily ever after- as a pro-lifer

[i_love_being_so_wicked]

I don't think anyone with a screenname such as yours, which makes such an announcement, can really expect to be taken seriously on any such matter

Actually, asshole, my screen name comes from my love of the play Wicked that is based on the book Wicked: The Life And Times Of The Wicked Witch Of The West by Gregory Maguire. He also has a sequel to it called Son Of A Witch, which is also a good book but not as good as the first.

Don't think you can judge people based on their screen names. You have no idea who I am or who you are dealing with so shut up.

[jbeukema]

mark Supreme Court decision, Norma McCorvey gave birth to her child, and Sandra Bensing never had an abortion. Both of these women have also come forward to admit that their testimony was false. In 1987, McCorvey told Washington Times columnist Carl Rowan that the Roe decision was based on false testimony. She admitted that her account of being raped in 1969 was a fabrication designed to invalidate the law. Instead, she confessed that she had become pregnant by her boyfriend.


[sanda bensing] stated that she never needed an abortion, and has never received one since the decision. “This could destroy the legal foundation for Roe vs. Wade,” said Joan Moseley, a spokesperson for the plaintiff. “We believe we have discovered fraud, but we are protecting the plaintiff because she has been getting harassed by pro-abortion groups.”
http://www.forerunner.com/forerunner/X0474_Roe__v._Wade.html
46 million dead- all based on lies and perjury... themselves, criminal acts (http://prolifeaction.org/faq/abortion.htm#total)



You have no idea who I am or who you are dealing with so shut up.
You are an anti-lifer who does not value human life over someone's convenience; what else do I need to know?

[i_love_being_so_wicked]

And you seem to have no respect for the opinions of others. What else is new?

[LoggerLee]

It's the ol' 2/3 of a person argument :(
It's a person,just cause' it's small and stupid when it's young does not make it less human.
If that were the case we could fire up the ovens and get rid of the pesky libs.

[LoggerLee]

There are plenty of children in the world who live in squalor and don't have homes and they die everyday.
And still arrogant people who believe they're genes are better than everyone elses create and destroy life so that they can have a baby that is "theirs"
adopt for goodness sake,the inability to have babies is how god told you that you are not suited to making babies.

[WhiteAfricanAmerican]

Wicked, you were the one that said:


Plus a fetus technically has no rights since it is not ...old enough to vote.

As such JB's reasoning that he could ravage a 17 year old, being that the 17 year old has no rights because it's not old enough to vote, is a perfectly logical progression from your above statement.


a>people do things
b>making it illegal to do them does not stop them
c>they will then not follow any safety procedures
d>then it should be legal


that makes a LOT of sense.....

I don't want to hijack the thread, but I'm reading this statement of yours and I'm thinking about your arguments on the guns on campus thread, and I'm going WTF....you just contradicted every argument you made on the other thread with this...

I know you're going to respond to this, so copy this, post it and answer it over there, so as not derail this thread any further.

[jbeukema]

Logger, the last quoted statement was a summation if Wicked's reasoning- the ol', 'they'll do it with a coathanger and die if we don't let a doctor kill their baby.' I was showing the stupidity of the argument, which is merely an attempt to discredit all legislation in the first place by those who do not wish to follow it. Will the idiots shove a hanger up 'em or make meth in the basement? Maybe. Is it then our problem if they kill their fool selves in the commission of crime and atrocity? No, that's poetic justice. If a woman dies from a back-alley abortion because she wants to continue her carefree life and won't seek out a good home for her child- that's a good thing. She should die a slow and horrible death alone on a table staring up at a bare lightbulb.


Yep, that's poetic justice, just like any murder get him/herself killed by their own stupidity. The religious folk can call that divine intervention

[WhiteAfricanAmerican]

The religious folk can call that divine intervention

There aren't many religious folk that would wish that to happen that I know...except perhaps Madd.:icon_twis

Divine Retribution would perhaps be a better term though......

[jbeukema]

Granted- on both notes.

[san clemente]

Logger, the last quoted statement was a summation if Wicked's reasoning- the ol', 'they'll do it with a coathanger and die if we don't let a doctor kill their baby.' I was showing the stupidity of the argument, which is merely an attempt to discredit all legislation in the first place by those who do not wish to follow it. Will the idiots shove a hanger up 'em or make meth in the basement? Maybe. Is it then our problem if they kill their fool selves in the commission of crime and atrocity? No, that's poetic justice. If a woman dies from a back-alley abortion because she wants to continue her carefree life and won't seek out a good home for her child- that's a good thing. She should die a slow and horrible death alone on a table staring up at a bare lightbulb.


Yep, that's poetic justice, just like any murder get him/herself killed by their own stupidity. The religious folk can call that divine interventionYou assume a lot with the "because she wants to continue her carefree life" part.

I'm totally against abortion and I have no doubt that a "carefree life" is the motivation for many abortions, but I doubt that is the reason for them all.

[jbeukema]

What else is there? We're not talking about true and valid medical emergencies; I said long ago that in such instances it would be unethical to risk two lives if one can be saved. Also, i don't care how much emotional trauma is involved- killing the child won't suddenly make the emotional scarring go away, and many women hate themselves even more for doing so. They need counseling, support, adoption, and recovery- not the destruction of human life and further atrocity and violence. The fact is most use abortion and murder in place of a condom and the pill- all in the name of a two supreme court cases built on lies and perjury- and neither of the women involved killed their child! Mccorvey had her child adopted and lived happily ever after and the other woman had her child. *links in earlier posts*

[LoggerLee]

Right,I don't think I've ever seen ANYONE try and say that aborting a child that is a serious risk to the mother is wrong.

So the rape/incest thing,that must be where two wrongs make a right?
I understand as well as I can,it just don't make sense when all is said and done,it's still about convenience,IMO.

[san clemente]

Some kid gets date raped and is now pregnant. She doesn't know who to turn to and is both frightened and ashamed. That would be a non medical emergency right? I don't know what I would do in a situation like that and I just said that I'm against abortion. But to be a kid (say 15 to 18) in that position....

I just thought that your comment seemed a little strong in it's wording.

[san clemente]

Right,I don't think I've ever seen ANYONE try and say that aborting a child that is a serious risk to the mother is wrong.

So the rape/incest thing,that must be where two wrongs make a right?
I understand as well as I can,it just don't make sense when all is said and done,it's still about convenience,IMO.A rape victim? That would still be out of convenience? I'm not so sure about that.

[LoggerLee]

Well I just don't see how killing a baby is going to make anyone feel better,is it the babies fault that it's a result of rape?
It seems to me that for the inconvenience of carrying the baby and having to think about where it came from she gives an innocent child the death sentence.

[jbeukema]

Some kid gets date raped and is now pregnant. She doesn't know who to turn to and is both frightened and ashamed. That would be a non medical emergency right?
No, that'd be a horrible experience. two wrong make a right, as LL said? Have you never known a woman to have a child as a result of rape or an abusive relationship who couldn't be a good mother? Adoption, SC. How can you use rape to justify murder? That's like saying that a murderer is not culpable because of childhood sexual abuse. one's own tragedies NEVER justify harming another person to make yourself feel better


I don't know what I would do in a situation like that and I just said that I'm against abortion. But to be a kid (say 15 to 18) in that position....

There's adoption and rape counseling- instead of rape mcounseling and future counseling for the many women who come to loathe themselves for killing their child



I just thought that your comment seemed a little strong in it's wording.
Nope. Shove a coathanger in their and kill yourself, it's your own damned fault. I'll nominate you for a Darwin


Well I just don't see how killing a baby is going to make anyone feel better,is it the babies fault that it's a result of rape?
It seems to me that for the inconvenience of carrying the baby and having to think about where it came from she gives an innocent child the death sentence.

The same way, Lee, that no serial killer is liable because (s)he was abused once.... wrong+wrong= moral justification, apparently

[san clemente]

Maybe it's different being a women. Any of the ladies here care to chime in? If you were the victim of rape and as a result became pregnant, could you go through with the pregnancy?

Would you still feel JB that a rape victim dying while getting an abortion would be poetic justice?