When Is a Hate Crime...

[thumbelina]

When is a hate crime ...not a hate crime?!?
RACIAL WRANGLE (http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/45270.htm)

When the attackers are black and the victims are white!

[IHL]

I've deleted a few replies to this post because this is not about the black population or the white population in general. This has to do with the equality of the application of the law. Don't turn this into black vs. white.

The problem here is that as much as we'd like to think that the law is applied blindly and without regard to race, it doesn't seem to be the case.

[Hooray4Libs]

I want to know how you can commit a crime against someone without hate? I would think that if I purposefully killed/beat/robbed someone, it would be because I had a genuine dislike for that individual. I am about as much of a fan of "hate crimes" as I am of affirmative action.

[riverman]

fffffffffffffffffff

[IHL]

I think the term "hate crime" is a joke in the first place. I agree that all crimes are hate crimes and they should be punished regardless of whether race was involved. Crime is crime and it should be punished harshly. However, since there is the law on the books, it should be applied equally.

[CognitiveTruth]

I believe hate-crime as a legal augmenter to an assault sentence (or any other kind) should be abolished. What is the differance between hate crimes and normal crimes? Both involve assault and violence. The only difference is what the perpetrator is thinking at the time. To say that hate crime is legally punishable is to say that the government can punish an individual because of what that person thinks.

[Conan The Libertarian]

Orwell's 1984 was prophetic in predicting that the Thought Police would eventually detect, prosecute, and convict Political Incorrectness.

All assaults are assaults, all thefts are thefts, all murders are murders.

Degree, or intent, should have some weight in sentencing the convicted, but doesn't affect determination of guilt or innocence.

The accused cannot Constitutionally be compelled to offer testimony which could lead to conviction. That implies that thoughts may remain private in the legal process.

Thoughts are not prosecutable and are not an element of a crime.

The staged increase in the number of assaillants tends to imply that this may have been a case of gang related assault and battery, which could raise RICO concerns in the investigation.

[deek]

i dont even understand how it works...you cant prove in a court of law that color of skin was the reason for the crime. its impossible to prove without reading the persons mind. and i thought you had to prove things in court...or am i mistaken? i just dont understand how any of it stands in court (unless the person says "i hate black people, thats why i did it")

and then in that case...who cares? you still did the crime that other people did, you just did it for a different reason. it just doesnt make any sense to punish anything but the crime itself.

[Count Rugen]

A hate crime is commited when someone commits a violent crime against another based solely on the victims race, ehtnicity, sexual orientation or religion.

Usually, when prosecuting a hate crime the prosecutor will try and connect the defendant with certain hate groups or past bigoted behavior. It's pretty easy to prove a hate crime occured when a hate crime occurs. that's the reason for the legislation.

[jackalope_herder]

A hate crime is commited when someone commits a violent crime against another based solely on the victims race, ehtnicity, sexual orientation or religion.

Usually, when prosecuting a hate crime the prosecutor will try and connect the defendant with certain hate groups or past bigoted behavior. It's pretty easy to prove a hate crime occured when a hate crime occurs. that's the reason for the legislation.

It's also pretty easy to prove a hate crime occured when in fact, it wasn't a hate crime (I think "Every crime is a hate crime" is rather funny"). Whatever happened to the days that people killed each other civilly, like in duels...?

[Count Rugen]

When I said it was pretty easy to prove a hate crime when a hate crime occurs I was implying that it is very difficult to prove a hate crime when one doesn't occur. You have to prove that a person has a history that would lead to a crime commited being a crime of hate. This is most often done by linking the suspect to hate groups. also, if a guy beats another guy up and then writes "===" or "homo"(a couple of favorite words on this board I've found) all over the victim then it is a hate crime. It's really not very difficult to understand.

[UofOregonRightWinger]

The only black kid at South Park Elementary calls Cartman fat one too many times. Cartman throws a rock at him and hits him in the head. Mr. Mackey (M'kay) gives Cartman 2 weeks of detention. Then the FBI comes in and Cartman is charged with a hate crime and is sent to juvie. The last thing the judge says to Cartman:

"I'm going to make an example of you, I'm going to show everyone in this state that if you want to beat someone up or kill them, you better make damn sure that they are the same color as you!"

Matt Stone and Trey Parker, two people that know the way things are and aren't afraid to point out how stupid some things are.

[Count Rugen]

I usually base my belief system on a cartoon. I find that Barney Rubble said it best when he said "Judge no man on the color of his skin, but rather the content of his character".

[UofOregonRightWinger]

I just think it's sad when a cartoon whose creators pride themselves in how many times they can say sh*t in one show make a lot more sense than the liberals do.

[Count Rugen]

I just think it's sad when a cartoon whose creators pride themselves in how many times they can say sh*t in one show make a lot more sense than the liberals do.
but that's a statement of fact. Is it a fact that South Park makes more sense than liberals? "Sense" is in the eye of the beholder. Trey Parker and Matt Stone are, what I believe to be, contrarians. they look for places to make fun of stuff and people that side with them issue sweeping statements like "South Park makes more sense than liberals". Well, what about the way they portray hunters? Do you agree with that? What about the way the portray people who support the war in Iraq? Do they make more sense there? The truth is you found something in a South Park episode that made liberals look dumb and decided it was holy writ because you agree with it, that's not critical thinking.

If someone attacks you because of the color of your skin it is a hate crime. If someone attacks you because you're gay it's a hate crime. It's easy to prove and makes a hell of a lot more sense than "Cartman".

[Sgt.Miroku_Army]

obviously they take any issue and blow it out of proportion. I am a hunter and that line "It's comin' right for us!" is freaking hilarious. So was the way they depicted old people and driving. There is a difference in making fun of hate crimes, because the joke showed how ridiculous the law is. Making fun of hunters on the other hand is making fun of the stereotype hunters have found themselves in. Same as the old people. So, you COULD argue that they do make liberals look dumb. But it's not the point of what they do...

[jackalope_herder]

but that's a statement of fact. Is it a fact that South Park makes more sense than liberals? "Sense" is in the eye of the beholder. Trey Parker and Matt Stone are, what I believe to be, contrarians. they look for places to make fun of stuff and people that side with them issue sweeping statements like "South Park makes more sense than liberals". Well, what about the way they portray hunters? Do you agree with that? What about the way the portray people who support the war in Iraq? Do they make more sense there? The truth is you found something in a South Park episode that made liberals look dumb and decided it was holy writ because you agree with it, that's not critical thinking.

If someone attacks you because of the color of your skin it is a hate crime. If someone attacks you because you're gay it's a hate crime. It's easy to prove and makes a hell of a lot more sense than "Cartman".

Good points, but don't you feel that blacks and gays and women and... (the list goes on and on) get special treatment because of the color of their skin or their gender or whatever? If I called a black person a n----- and he punched me in the face, he'd be justified. If that same black person called me a honky or a cracker or whatever they use now (Moderators, Can I say those? Please edit if I can't) and I punched them, it wouldn't. They're both slurs. My assult of the black person would likely be a hate crime, but their assult of me wouldn't. Remember Mumia Abu-Jamal? Last I had heard, he got off death row becuase he was black. Why would smashing a menorah on a jewish person's lawn be a hate crime, but burning a cross on a christians not (who calls that art?)? A lot of people like to cite the declaration of independence's famous "all men are created equal." While this has no legal power, some of these people really need to have it thrown back in their faces.

[Count Rugen]

Good points, but don't you feel that blacks and gays and women and... (the list goes on and on) get special treatment because of the color of their skin or their gender or whatever?
No, I don't, but I believe white males (of which I am one) have gotten special treatment in this country for two centuries.


If I called a black person a n----- and he punched me in the face, he'd be justified. If that same black person called me a honky or a cracker or whatever they use now (Moderators, Can I say those? Please edit if I can't) and I punched them, it wouldn't.
Who says it wouldn't?


Remember Mumia Abu-Jamal? Last I had heard, he got off death row becuase he was black.
No he didn't. If he got off death row at all (I haven't heard that, but I haven't been listening for it) it would be to answer the questions brought on by those defending him. Why do you think it's because he's black?


Why would smashing a menorah on a jewish person's lawn be a hate crime, but burning a cross on a christians not (who calls that art?)?
Burning crosses on people's yards would be considered a hate crime if you did it because the person is Christian (although in the south is was done by "christians" and they targeted blacks).

I think people are getting all worked up over scenario's that don't exist. Have you heard of anyone physically attacking a person because they're Christian? Have you heard of anyone physically attacking anyone because they're heterosexual? Probably not.

Now, have you heard of anyone being attacked becasue they're Muslim? Have you heard of anyone being attacked becasue they're gay? Probably.

[riverman]

ffffffffffffffffffffffff

[Count Rugen]

to respond to the question "have you ever heard of anyone being attacked for being a Christian?" the answer is a resounding yes! His name was Jesus Christ and the persecution still continues.
The Civil Rights act protects Americans civil rights. When you commit a violent crime against a person because of their race, religion or creed you are violating their civil rights, therefore the involvement of the federal government. Everyone is equally protected under hate crime legislation, therefore it doesn't fall under "equal protection".

You probably thought your answer about Christ was pretty clever at the time, but you must be out of your mind to think that Christians in this country are persecuted. Just because you don't get to put a manger scene on the police department lawn doesn't mean you're persecuted, you should read a book about martyrs.

[Guns R Cool]

White Christian males are persecuted every day in this country. Somehow we're responsible for everything wrong with this country.

http://www.protestwarrior.com/new_signs.php?sign=7

[jackalope_herder]

No, I don't, but I believe white males (of which I am one) have gotten special treatment in this country for two centuries.
True, but after 1960, we've really gotten the shaft. Equal rights were'nt good enough after a while, they had to be more equal with stuff like AA.



Who says it wouldn't? I'd be a hate crime becuase the guy was black. Provacation has nothing to do with it. If you'd accept that, I congratulate you for being an exceptionally sane liberal. If you could convince the others, we'd hail you as a hero.



No he didn't. If he got off death row at all (I haven't heard that, but I haven't been listening for it) it would be to answer the questions brought on by those defending him. Why do you think it's because he's black?

They argued that he MIGHT have shot the police officer 5 times in the head and groin in self-defense or with provacation. That's excessive and a bs argument.


I think people are getting all worked up over scenario's that don't exist. Have you heard of anyone physically attacking a person because they're Christian? Have you heard of anyone physically attacking anyone because they're heterosexual? Probably not.

Now, have you heard of anyone being attacked becasue they're Muslim? Have you heard of anyone being attacked becasue they're gay? Probably.

Somebaody had a statistic that 90% of violent crimes were comitted by blacks, and a good number were comitted against whites. I believe in the liberal news media, which wouldn't publicicze that kind of stuff that would be deemed detrementa to their message, but you don't. People do attack christians and herterosexuals, but its slander, not physical. Suddenly, it's impossible for a christian to be tolerant and somehow, if you're not pro-gay, you're a homophobe. I'd call that an attack.

[riverman]

my comments are never meant to be "clever" just truthful. But I understand that being a liberal the truth might seem clever and possibly even a novelty. persecution of Christians in America has not reached the epic proportions of biblical times when they were fed to the lions (well not yet anyway) but the ACLU right now is working with Maureen Dowd ,Ted Turner and Bill Maher to enact legislation and see what the 9th circus out in Kalifornia can do. Give me a break mr liberal guy! How about sending kids to school where they can be taught that their parents Christian values regarding homosexuality are ridiculed and negated. how about the ACLU coming into small towns and bankrupting them if they don't adhere the the facsist socialist lockstep of eliminating ANY reference to God? how about the entire liberal lockstep (goosestep) of ridiculing and trivializing Christianity?? Opression and persecution take many forms and you leftist humanist anti-religion zealots of today may use the pen instead of the sword you seem to forget the old adage of which weapon is more powerful. I will say one thing for liberals they are persistant in their zealotry to eliminate Christainity from American life but have learned very little from the last few elections as to what America really says and wants and believes in. Good luck in the next elections -you'll need it.

[FightinDaMan]

I think the term "hate crime" is a joke in the first place. I agree that all crimes are hate crimes and they should be punished regardless of whether race was involved. Crime is crime and it should be punished harshly. However, since there is the law on the books, it should be applied equally.

amen.

[Guns R Cool]

Has anyone seen the SOuthpark where Cartman hits Token (Black kid) with a rock. He is sent to juvie for a hate crime even though he was like, "What's a hate crime?" the whole time. I dont car what color, race, or creed you are, if you piss me off I'm gonna kick your ass cause I'm a redneck.