China, the Red Threat

[Dr. Madd]

So you're not halting free association, but you're halting free association. Gotcha. :wink:China should in fact be stopped. Not because of any free association, but because that whether you want to remove your head from your ass or not, this wave of imports is an attack on America. And if the Government won't work for American industries, the least it can do is not work AGAINST them.
See, your problem is that you do not take into account that if all the Jobs are over there, then they are not here, and the ones that remain here by some fluke are either taken by Illegals or insufficient for survival of the economy. The result: No one over here has any money, and if no one has any money, no one is buying anything of import and what they do buy ships all the money over to foreign lands. The result.. We borrow more money to keep afloat, getting us into deeper debt. That is the legacy of your policies.
You're suggesting freedom through restrictions. You're suggesting freedom within an allowed sphere of trade. What you're suggesting is akin to an animal in a zoo. Being free to roam around a cage is not the same as being free. Actually it's more of a fortress. We are free to come and go, but we can be a little selective who we open the drawbridge for. I simply want American industries to get a fair shake, a fair shake I don't think we are getting as a result of the Economic warfare China is waging on the US.
Besides which, nationalism for the sake of nationalism is a dangerous thing. But its not Nationalism for the sake of Nationalism. Its Nationalism so we aren't devoured by a foreign power like China. Good God man! Have you no survial instinct at all?
The founders had loyalty to their principles first, their nation second. The nation was an extension of those principles, not the source of them. You need to revisit your own principles and decide if things like liberty, freedom, and inalienable rights matter to you, or whether you put a flag above those principles. Wrong again.. Go back to 1776, and look at the original Draft. Jefferson condemned Slavery, but the passage was removed so the South would sign it. So much for that argument. Read your history a little more before you spew, 'kay? Nations are born of compromise, always.
Let's see. I want free trade without government restrictions. Thereby standing by Idly while China creams us economically with Slave labor in an effort to harm our children and Taking all the jobs, driving us deeper into debt. Nice going.
I want people to be free to engage in trade with whomever they want. With what, their good looks? If there are no good paying jobs over here, then They won't be buying goods at all. The Companies who outsource either sell abroad or die out. That bleeds out what little tax money the Government is getting, and then the deficit gets worse, we borrow more.. You're bailing out a leaky canoe with a sieve old boy.
You want to prevent people from engaging in free trade except where you think it's okay. My plan would lower the deficit. What would yours do but make it worse?
You want to limit people's actions because you think you know what's best for them.

And you're calling me elitist? Try looking in a mirror, fella. I was raised for the first few years of my life in a home with no running water and no phone. We were dirt poor. So don't stand there calling me an elitist. Anything My family's ever gained, we've worked our asses off for.
So you want to delegislate and legislate. Gotcha. Don't be a dick. The Problem is that Government has put laws in that don't need to be there and not put in laws that do need to be there.
If the government is responsible for getting us into this mess, what makes you think it can get us out? The only thing the government knows how to do is make messes, not clean them. Then you ARE an anarchist. You don't believe in any government at all.
This bureaucratic beast America has built over the last century must be dismantled by the same tools that assembled it. Law by law. How else can it be done, short of an armed rebellion?
The deficit has a simple solution. Stop electing socialists (i.e. Democrats and Republicans), and start electing fiscal conservatives who believe the government should get out of the way of the people, not tell them what they can and can't do when those actions don't interfere with the rights of others. Fiscal Conservatives would agree with me, not your globalist mercantillic spew. And how would the Government get out of the way, except by delegislation? As for China, our Government does not rule them, and as they ship in Dangerous goods in what I consider a purposed attack on Americans, they must be stopped from importing at all.

Unemployment also has a simple solution. Get the government out of the way. Let free trade reign. Let businesses engage in business unencumbered. Protectionist and socialist policies made the Great Depression worse. Why try and repeat that?[/quote]

[PonsAsinorum]

China should in fact be stopped. Not because of any free association, but because that whether you want to remove your head from your ass or not, this wave of imports is an attack on America. And if the Government won't work for American industries, the least it can do is not work AGAINST them.
Does your tinfoil hat protect you from the Chinese attack?


See, your problem is that you do not take into account that if all the Jobs are over there, then they are not here, and the ones that remain here by some fluke are either taken by Illegals or insufficient for survival of the economy. The result: No one over here has any money, and if no one has any money, no one is buying anything of import and what they do buy ships all the money over to foreign lands. The result.. We borrow more money to keep afloat, getting us into deeper debt. That is the legacy of your policies.
I'm still waiting for you to show causation. Up to this point you have failed to explain why free trade -- something that benefits both parties -- means inferior jobs in America. All you've done is show correlation. But I could easily correlate the rise in global temperature with the decrease in high seas piracy. One has gone up while the other has gone down. Does this mean the relationship is causal? Not at all. But that's the leap you expect everyone to make, even though you have provided insufficient evidence to that end. Shoot, you haven't even given a halfway decent theoretical explanation. You just blabber on about how China is trying to poison us and take arr jobs.


Actually it's more of a fortress. We are free to come and go, but we can be a little selective who we open the drawbridge for. I simply want American industries to get a fair shake, a fair shake I don't think we are getting as a result of the Economic warfare China is waging on the US.
Then please stop insulting free-thinking people by pretending you are interested in freedom when you aren't. You're willing to trade your freedom (and mine and everyone else's) for security. I fear you more than I fear China.


But its not Nationalism for the sake of Nationalism. Its Nationalism so we aren't devoured by a foreign power like China. Good God man! Have you no survial instinct at all?
Sorry, my tinfoil hat hasn't arrived in the mail yet. I prolly shouldn't have ordered one from China, though. It might be poisoned.


Wrong again.. Go back to 1776, and look at the original Draft. Jefferson condemned Slavery, but the passage was removed so the South would sign it. So much for that argument. Read your history a little more before you spew, 'kay? Nations are born of compromise, always.
I never said compromise was evil. But there are some times where compromise and principle are incompatible. You still don't get that.


Thereby standing by Idly while China creams us economically with Slave labor in an effort to harm our children and Taking all the jobs, driving us deeper into debt. Nice going.
Correlation. Causation. You know the drill. Or at least you should.


With what, their good looks? If there are no good paying jobs over here, then They won't be buying goods at all. The Companies who outsource either sell abroad or die out. That bleeds out what little tax money the Government is getting, and then the deficit gets worse, we borrow more.. You're bailing out a leaky canoe with a sieve old boy.
Is that why we all work at McDonald's now? I was kinda wondering...


My plan would lower the deficit. What would yours do but make it worse?
Actually, your penchant for electing socialists is going to make the deficit worse. It's the spending that keeps killing us moreso than the taxes. Good job on voting for big spenders!


I was raised for the first few years of my life in a home with no running water and no phone. We were dirt poor. So don't stand there calling me an elitist. Anything My family's ever gained, we've worked our asses off for.
When you make elitist statements, I'm going to call you on it. Don't like it, don't make 'em.


Don't be a dick. The Problem is that Government has put laws in that don't need to be there and not put in laws that do need to be there.
You're half right.


Then you ARE an anarchist. You don't believe in any government at all.
This bureaucratic beast America has built over the last century must be dismantled by the same tools that assembled it. Law by law. How else can it be done, short of an armed rebellion?
I'd settle for the government dismantling itself. I'm pragmatic enough to know the good ol' boy network is too alive and well for things to change much. But I'm still hopeful, which is why I keep iterating that government is the problem. Perhaps people will start to question the way things have been done through government and think for once in their lives.



Fiscal Conservatives would agree with me, not your globalist mercantillic spew. And how would the Government get out of the way, except by delegislation? As for China, our Government does not rule them, and as they ship in Dangerous goods in what I consider a purposed attack on Americans, they must be stopped from importing at all.
I'm not a mercantilist. You really ought not to use words you don't understand.

[Dr. Madd]

Does your tinfoil hat protect you from the Chinese attack?

Head back in the Sand, Pons.. Nothing to see here... :rolleyes:



I'm still waiting for you to show causation. Up to this point you have failed to explain why free trade -- something that benefits both parties -- means inferior jobs in America.

What you call free trade is not. Free trade means that everyone has a chance, not a guarantee, but a chance to succeed. WHat is happening now is that China is not playing by those rules. China seeks to smother fledgling industries in the womb. That is not free trade. China does this by slavery and the lash. Perhaps we should start doing likewise? Is that what you want? Enslaving Americans?



All you've done is show correlation. But I could easily correlate the rise in global temperature with the decrease in high seas piracy.

I've shown all I need to.. It's not my responsibility to beat into that pudding you call a head. The American people themselves want this policy.



One has gone up while the other has gone down. Does this mean the relationship is causal? Not at all. But that's the leap you expect everyone to make, even though you have provided insufficient evidence to that end. Shoot, you haven't even given a halfway decent theoretical explanation. You just blabber on about how China is trying to poison us and take arr jobs.

Prove China isn't. All the recalls, all the dead pets, the outsourcing of jobs. It's an economic offensive. In your tunnel vision, you fail to understand that not all wars are fought with bombs and guns. some are fought with lead-painted toys and slave labor.




Then please stop insulting free-thinking people by pretending you are interested in freedom when you aren't. You're willing to trade your freedom (and mine and everyone else's) for security. I fear you more than I fear China.


Sorry, my tinfoil hat hasn't arrived in the mail yet. I prolly shouldn't have ordered one from China, though. It might be poisoned.


I never said compromise was evil. But there are some times where compromise and principle are incompatible. You still don't get that.


Correlation. Causation. You know the drill. Or at least you should.


Is that why we all work at McDonald's now? I was kinda wondering...


Actually, your penchant for electing socialists is going to make the deficit worse. It's the spending that keeps killing us moreso than the taxes. Good job on voting for big spenders!


When you make elitist statements, I'm going to call you on it. Don't like it, don't make 'em.


You're half right.


I'd settle for the government dismantling itself. I'm pragmatic enough to know the good ol' boy network is too alive and well for things to change much. But I'm still hopeful, which is why I keep iterating that government is the problem. Perhaps people will start to question the way things have been done through government and think for once in their lives.



I'm not a mercantilist. You really ought not to use words you don't understand.[/QUOTE]

[PonsAsinorum]

Head back in the Sand, Pons.. Nothing to see here... :rolleyes:
The sand? Is that where you keep your hat?


What you call free trade is not. Free trade means that everyone has a chance, not a guarantee, but a chance to succeed. WHat is happening now is that China is not playing by those rules. China seeks to smother fledgling industries in the womb. That is not free trade. China does this by slavery and the lash. Perhaps we should start doing likewise? Is that what you want? Enslaving Americans?
Apparently you want China to remain in that state, since you do not want to afford them the opportunity to leave it through capitalism and free trade.


I've shown all I need to.. It's not my responsibility to beat into that pudding you call a head. The American people themselves want this policy.
You've shown nothing but correlation. Show me causation. Show me how you made the jump from A to C.


Prove China isn't. All the recalls, all the dead pets, the outsourcing of jobs. It's an economic offensive. In your tunnel vision, you fail to understand that not all wars are fought with bombs and guns. some are fought with lead-painted toys and slave labor.
I don't prove other people's negatives. You were the one who stated it. Now man up and back it up with something more than fearmongering.

[KSigMason]

Back and forth. Back and forth. Back and forth.

It's like a really bad tennis match that won't end.

[Dr. Madd]

Back and forth. Back and forth. Back and forth.

It's like a really bad tennis match that won't end.

Don't you think I'm as for ending this like Alvin Chipmunk wants a hulahoop. I've got other things I can be doing, but this Poindexter keeps popping off.

Pons... I've spoke my piece. Take my advice and my warning or not; I don't care. I'm through with this thread. No, you didn't win. But like Ksig, I am tired of it. I'm never going to make you see this, and you'll never stuff my head into the sand.

[KSigMason]

Don't you think I'm as for ending this like Alvin Chipmunk wants a hulahoop.:icon_lol:


But like Ksig, I am tired of it. I'm never going to make you see this, and you'll never stuff my head into the sand.<== Sand free from the beginning!