Tax Cuts Only Benefit the Rich?

[Wadi66]

what a load of crap.

[Dr. Madd]

The Liberals believe you should earn a living? Given their propensity for a welfare state, you must make:

1. 50% of your pay for taxes
2. 30% of your pay to feed a bunch of self-unemployed deadbeats
3. 5% to support the democratic party

In order to make enough to earn a living, a person would have to clear 300,000 dollars a year, before taxes.

[jonfacebass]

what a load of crap.

Is it now? How about whipping up a few sentences to explain why? :wink:

[jonfacebass]

The Liberals believe you should earn a living? Given their propensity for a welfare state, you must make:

1. 50% of your pay for taxes
2. 30% of your pay to feed a bunch of self-unemployed deadbeats
3. 5% to support the democratic party

In order to make enough to earn a living, a person would have to clear 300,000 dollars a year, before taxes.

Wrong on all counts Dr. Madd. Do you know what the 3 biggest things the government spends money on? The military, social security, and medicare. Unemployment insurance and welfare are not even close. So really, all you are bieng taxed for is to pay for the military (which you like), helping old people (which you hate), and helping old people have health care (which you also probably hate).

Sorry dude, but what you are saying is wrong. Did you ever take economics in high school? You learn this stuff in high school man! For goodness sake.

[Aurelius]

Madd what are you belching up? You must feed off your own ridiculous statements.

His response to the third quote does drive into a basic economic model though and is by no means a "bunch of crap". Until basic low paying services magically happen an underclass is required. How this working underclass is treated and the level of care that is provided to them speaks volumes about our own society and the stability of those above them. There are so many juicy Thomas Jefferson quotes that apply here I can't even begin.


Why do we need scientists for all the proof. Science is a fallable, more wrong than right.

If you'd like to go back to the four elements I'm willing to accept everything of yours that "scientific proof" has made possible.

[Wadi66]

How this working underclass is treated and the level of care that is provided to them speaks volumes about our own society and the stability of those above them.How they are treated does speak volumes, but not about our society. Rather its an individual flaw. I know employers who treat their employees like crap and since I know the employer, I can varify that it reflects their personal values and personality flaw. On the other hand I know employers who treat their employees very well and they themselves are sterling people.

In either event, it is not the duty and obligation of the government nor of society to try to force the proper care and feeding of employees upon employers. That is not the purpose of government.

And a point you and I have been over many time but you STILL are not grasping is that if said employee feels the wage or treatment is not on a par with his/her output or what the employee feels is fair, then that employee is duty bound (to himself) to move on.

Please, since you aren't grasping this, give me an example of where an employee is forced to stay and endure poverty and or abuse.

I'm saying to remain is a matter of choice. Sometimes the choices are hard, sometimes it doesn't seem like much of a choice, but its still a choice.

[Aurelius]

I understand your point Wadi, but there are other things which I believe you are not considering. Think of towns where a single industry is relied upon in order to survive. If the job was mistreating the employees then there is nothing else to turn towards. An underpaid job is still a job and the concessions employees have to make in certain situations to provide to their family override everything else. To further expand this you need to look at those who work 40 hours a week at minimum wage. They work just as hard if not harder then many yet there is nowhere else for them to turn. Some businesses do offer limited insurance for employees, but it is no where near an acceptable amount of care. We've had this discussion before and you immediately jumped to the "pulling themselves up by their bootstraps" approach; however, you also failed to understand that not everybody has the ability to based upon such a large list of reasons I can't list them all.

[Wadi66]

Then AU lets take the opportunity to address them.

Think of towns where a single industry is relied upon in order to survive. If the job was mistreating the employees then there is nothing else to turn towards. If the job was mistreating the employees then there is nothing else to turn towards. An underpaid job is still a job and the concessions employees have to make in certain situations to provide to their family override everything else. In the first place, would you consider an island community whose city limits were 1 mile wide by 3 miles long nestled between mountains 3500 ft high and the ocean and whose population was 12,000+ people, a small community? I would, and that's were I lived for 20 years. So I understand the dynamics of small communities.

The primary employer employed 2000+ people. They treated employees well, pay was good as were medical benefits. The manager was well received as he walked thru the facility. Community relations were good. If you worked there, you were envied.

Contrast that with another employer (a large and well established grocery store) who treated his employees poorly, paid only what he had to, and was not respected in the community. The owner remarked to a friend that "you can't take it with you", (meaning money). His friend remarked "you can Bill, there are banks all over hell". He had a high turn over rate because people worked for him only as long as it took to find something better. If the community didn't have anything better to offer, people moved away. You know what stands between people and a better life, its thinking they have no choice. If you're victimized its because you allow yourself to be. You are where you are because you've made the choice to stay there. You've weighed your options and elected to endure your lot in life instead of realizing your potential.
To further expand this you need to look at those who work 40 hours a week at minimum wage. They work just as hard if not harder then many yet there is nowhere else for them to turn.There is, there is, there is. There is always somewhere else to go. Leaving what you know isn't always comfortable or easy, but unless you're staked to the ground, you can leave as soon as you make up your mind to.

The problem AU is that you see people who work 40 hrs a week at minimum wage as being stuck, I don't. I know several right now. There are jobs galore around here, but they lack the motivation to find anything better. Their essential needs are being met and while on one hand they would like something better, they don't want it enough to do what is necessary to obtain it. People fear change.


We've had this discussion before and you immediately jumped to the "pulling themselves up by their bootstraps" approach; however, you also failed to understand that not everybody has the ability to based upon such a large list of reasons I can't list them all.The difference AU is that I don't buy into the victimhood mentality. I've attended too many seminars, read too many books, counseled too many people out of the victimhood mentality and raised a family, to ever believe in it. Where there's the will, there's a way. What the mind can conceive, it can achieve.

One of my many complaints against public education is that children are taught they don't have the right to defend themselves. If someone is picking on them they either have to take it or walk away which only results in more taunting. These kids grow up thinking they have to take whatever is dished out. False. The only place you have to take what is dished out is in the military. Everywhere else, you're a free man. You only have to be willing to take responsibility for your life.

And that is also one of my biggest complaints against liberalism. It breeds victims.

[Dr. Madd]

*Gets out old-fashioned Sausage Grinder.. Dr. Madd is wearing an oversized Chef's hat* today on "Cooking with Dr. Madd* We make... LIBERAL SAUSAGE!




Wrong on all counts Dr. Madd. Do you know what the 3 biggest things the government spends money on?
This site is my source.
http://www.warresisters.org/piechart.htm

First let's discuss this. Government spending 19% for the military
33% for human resources (What's up with that, but you're already wrong) 30% current military (I'm assuming the other is pensions, for those old people you claimed I hated. Wrong again)
12% General government
6% physical resources.
Now, lessee. We can count out the 19% percent and add it to Human Resources as Military pensions count as money to those old people which you say I'm supposed to hate, and that gives Welfare programs (insidiously labeled Human resources) a whopping 52%!
You are so BUSTED!*Stuffs first sentence into grinder* For this part, I like a coarser blend and a delicate mixture of seasonings.




The military, social security, and medicare. Unemployment insurance and welfare are not even close. So really, all you are bieng taxed for is to pay for the military (which you like), helping old people (which you hate), and helping old people have health care (which you also probably hate).

I like Old people, but Social Security wouldn't be necessary if people managed their economics better in their youth. But they figure they've got Social Security to fall back on, so they don't try. I do believe if you've paid in, you ought to get back, but if you have never paid in, don't expect to retire on other people's cash.As for Medicare, It wouldn't be necessary if the Gov't would step out and let market forces dictate prices. Competition lowers prices. Don't try to argue that it doesn't, for you'd just make yourself look stupid trying. *Stuffs fallible Arguments into grinder* I like this part to save for my mom's dogs. Completely indigestible.. Makes a chewy snack for dogs.



Sorry dude, but what you are saying is wrong. Did you ever take economics in high school? You learn this stuff in high school man! For goodness sake.

Only if you take Economics in a Red Chinese High School. If YOU took economics you'd know Socialism doesn't work. *Stuffs final part into sausage maker, adds sage* This part I suspect will make for good breakfast links. ENJOY!

[Dr. Madd]

I understand your point Wadi, but there are other things which I believe you are not considering. Think of towns where a single industry is relied upon in order to survive. If the job was mistreating the employees then there is nothing else to turn towards. An underpaid job is still a job and the concessions employees have to make in certain situations to provide to their family override everything else. To further expand this you need to look at those who work 40 hours a week at minimum wage. They work just as hard if not harder then many yet there is nowhere else for them to turn. Some businesses do offer limited insurance for employees, but it is no where near an acceptable amount of care. We've had this discussion before and you immediately jumped to the "pulling themselves up by their bootstraps" approach; however, you also failed to understand that not everybody has the ability to based upon such a large list of reasons I can't list them all.


First fallacy: I live in the middle of several small towns. Have all my life. There's always more than one job, so your argument is null and void. Do I need a second fallacy? Nope.

[Dr. Madd]

Madd what are you belching up? You must feed off your own ridiculous statements.
.

Is that all you've got? Weak...:icon_twis

[jonfacebass]

*Gets out old-fashioned Sausage Grinder.. Dr. Madd is wearing an oversized Chef's hat* today on "Cooking with Dr. Madd* We make... LIBERAL SAUSAGE!

This site is my source.
http://www.warresisters.org/piechart.htm

First let's discuss this. Government spending 19% for the military
33% for human resources (What's up with that, but you're already wrong) 30% current military (I'm assuming the other is pensions, for those old people you claimed I hated. Wrong again)
12% General government
6% physical resources.
Now, lessee. We can count out the 19% percent and add it to Human Resources as Military pensions count as money to those old people which you say I'm supposed to hate, and that gives Welfare programs (insidiously labeled Human resources) a whopping 52%!
You are so BUSTED!*Stuffs first sentence into grinder* For this part, I like a coarser blend and a delicate mixture of seasonings.

If you notice, at the top of that website it says "where your income tax money really goes". That chart is misleading because it only shows how money from income taxes is spent, and not money from other sources. As you probably already know, the government collects more taxes than just the income tax. It is misleading to only count spending from income tax and not the spending from other taxes.

If you look at President Bush's proposed budget for the fiscal year 2007, you will see an detailed chart of what the government is spending tax dollars on:

39% social security, medicare, medicade
20% military defense
19% non-defense discretionary
14% other mandatory
8% interest on debt

Discretionary spending is defined as:

"spending that the President and Congress control through the annual appropriations bills. Examples include spending for such activities as FBI, Coast Guard, education, space exploration, highway construction, defense, and foreign aid."

This is George W. Bush's own budget! And welfare programs are so small they don't even register! If you want to be pissed at the government taking your taxes, be pissed about social security, the military, highway construction, and the FBI. But to bring up welfare is dishonest.

source: http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2007/pdf/07msr.pdf


I'm not going to respond to the rest because it was all ad-hominem attacks.

[WhiteAfricanAmerican]

JonBass

We're all refreshed and challenged by your unique point of view, you ridiculous little carnival freak.

Your post is an orgy of stultifying cacophonous verbal depravity; an exercise in literary impotence, and an offense to all of good taste and decency.

If I had wanted to hear from somebody with your IQ, I'd be at my local supermarket talking to the vegetables.

I am reminded of something relevant that Benjamin Disraeli said: "He was distinguished for ignorance - for he had only one idea and that was wrong."

You are a bore, and a very dull one at that. Any friend of yours is a lousy judge of character. Seriously, I've come across decomposing dog carcases that are less offensive to the senses than you are. Maybe you wouldn't come across as such a jellyfish-sucking mental midget if didn't lack even the dim flicker of sentience needed to qualify as a imbecile

To sum up: you are about as smart as your rubber bow tie and two left shoes suggest, Bozo. Now, go curl back up in your corner, and continue chewing on your toenails.

[Dr. Madd]

If you notice, at the top of that website it says "where your income tax money really goes". That chart is misleading because it only shows how money from income taxes is spent, and not money from other sources. As you probably already know, the government collects more taxes than just the income tax. It is misleading to only count spending from income tax and not the spending from other taxes.

It still proves my point.. You have not refuted this.


If you look at President Bush's proposed budget for the fiscal year 2007, you will see an detailed chart of what the government is spending tax dollars on:

39% social security, medicare, medicade A welfare program

20% military defense
19% non-defense discretionary Where the congress barrels pork.

14% other mandatory
8% interest on debt

Discretionary spending is defined as:

"spending that the President and Congress control through the annual appropriations bills. Examples include spending for such activities as FBI, Coast Guard, education, space exploration, highway construction, defense, and foreign aid."

FBI, COast Guard, Education, defense, highways- All these go under Mandatory. Next.


This is George W. Bush's own budget! And welfare programs are so small they don't even register! If you want to be pissed at the government taking your taxes, be pissed about social security, the military, highway construction, and the FBI. But to bring up welfare is dishonest.

As I stated Social Security, Medicare, Medicade- two of these three things doesn't belong here. All of them, however are welfare based programs. Next.


source: http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2007/pdf/07msr.pdf


I'm not going to respond to the rest because it was all ad-hominem attacks.

Or perhaps, because you have no answers?Hmmmm????

[Dr. Madd]

JonBass

If I had wanted to hear from somebody with your IQ, I'd be at my local supermarket talking to the vegetables.

Then you'd be hanging out with his friends. OW! That response must have smarted a bit.