Conservative? Don't join the childfree group!

[thegnomeofwrath]

Hi all. I've posted here a couple of times, but mostly stick to lurking. After the awful night of liberal attacks I just went through this site seemed like the place to visit! I partly just want to rant, but I'd also like to see what your thoughts are. I'll start with some back ground info.

I don't think I've ever stated this here, but I don't want children. That being said, I'm against abortion, including the morning after pill, so having a child is always a possiblity. I also believe that life starts at conception, so I stick to condoms (I'm "too young" for a tubal ligation) as prevention rather than pills or other things that cause unwanted abortions.

Anyhow I noticed a "childfree" activity group was forming in my area and thought it might be fun to check out. It started out well enough--a barbeque on a beautiful day. Soon after though, one of the women started complaining about families with many children. I figure that's just as personal of a choice as having none so I said, "Well, isn't that their business, not ours?" Apparently this woman felt it WAS her business and retorted, "Well that mentality is for stupid conservatives and fundies." After my initial shock from the statement I pointed out that I'm conservative, and it went down the crapper from there. (Although I did enjoy the "debate" because I used logic while she used petty personal attacks and looked like a moron for doing so.) While I was obviously the minority as far as being conservative went there were others in the group who agreed that one's family size is between them, not us.

Anyhow, I had couple big issues with this woman (and those who agreed with her.) The first is that a big gripe of most childfree women is the criticism over the choice. So why on earth would one turn around and criticize the choice of another to have a large family? We ALL have different wants in life and if a couple wants to have (and can afford) 20 kids that's between THEM. If you're going to complain then they have every right to do the same when you say you don't want any.

Then she attacked my stance on abortion, saying that I obviously don't respect the rights of women not to have children. Sure, I respect the rights of women not to have children. As I said before I'm all for condoms, and I do get frustrated over not being considered old enough for sterilization. Toss in adoption and abstinence, and there are several options for prevention of having or raising a child. My problem with abortion (or abortifacient contraceptives) is that it's no longer about the rights of the woman. I'm not in support of a procedure that gives one person the right to kill another. Whether I want children or not, I never will be.

I did meet a couple of enjoyable people, who I quite possibly will get together with, but all in all this doesn't seem like a group I'm interested in joining. My biggest issue with the whole thing was the sterotyping that went on. I basically got a lot of, "You can't be conservative AND childfree" and I just don't understand WHY. Not wanting kids is just one tiny part of who I am and what I believe. Furthermore, I'm sure there are other people out there with a conservative outlook that don't want kids. I'm also sure there are liberals who have (or want) large families. I fail to see what one has to do with the other, and why it's the business of anyone but the two people (not) creating the children.

Any thoughts?

[FKLBRLS]

Well it is clear that this group will ultimately cause you nothing but arguments and distress, so I'd opt out. If there are people there you'd like to hang with, do so, but it seems like most are just a bunch of ultra-liberal blowhards who don't accept your views nor do they accept the views of others who have kids.

It is not the business of anyone but the parents. These self-absorbed people don't seem to realize the concept of individual opinion, and it seems that they won't realize it later, either. Ultra-liberals view their views as normal and any other views as "extreme." Ultra-liberals believe that they are better than everybody else and that their opinion matters more than others. This is how the creator of the ACLU, Roger Baldwin, felt, and why he created the ACLU. That is how political correctness started-it is the concept that a certain terminology for things is better than other terminology, so everyone must use that terminology. In your case, the liberal view that having many kids is bad is a liberal view and therefore should become the norm. If anyone opposes that view, they are an extremist and dangerous because this liberal view is just so damn special. It does not matter what people think individually because they are wrong and we are liberals and thus we are right and our opinion holds more weight. This is true with that woman you talked to. She thought her view mattered more because it was her special liberal view and not only should other views be disagreed with, they must also be silenced because they do not agree with that liberal view. This may be because liberals view themselves as the pinnacles of freedom and thus any opposing view hinders freedom so they think that any hindrance to freedom is dangerous.

Oh and one thing: why don't you want kids?

[The anti liberal]

Some of those women probaly can't have children do to biological problems and are jealous at those who can.

[thegnomeofwrath]

why don't you want kids?

Lots of reasons! My lack of patience is one of the biggest. Also, I'm not really that interested in them. I enjoy my little nephew, but I don't think I'd be happy doing it full time. There are other things too, including, neither my fiance nor I wanting to quit work to take care of them. Personally I feel children should have one full time parent, and neither of us have careers that would fit around that. I'm not good with pain either.

My fiance and I are on the same page about it. He doesn't want kids for reasons similar to mine. Abortion is unacceptable to both of us, and while we both think adoption is a good thing it's not for us either. If the situation were to arise we'd put everything aside and become parents--pretty good ones at that, I'm sure--but it's still something we'd like to avoid. :) We've also decided if we change our mind on it someday we'd prefer to adopt.


In your case, the liberal view that having many kids is bad is a liberal view and therefore should become the norm. If anyone opposes that view, they are an extremist and dangerous because this liberal view is just so damn special. It does not matter what people think individually because they are wrong and we are liberals and thus we are right and our opinion holds more weight. This is true with that woman you talked to.

Very well put. That was the kicker about the whole thing--before going on a tirade about people who have large families the woman was whining about taking criticism for not wanting any. Don't get me wrong, the criticism IS there--I'm not even married yet and I get it--so she obviously knows it's hurtful to be belittled over a personal decision. It's beyond me why she would turn around and make rude remarks about a couple who made a personal decision on the other end of the spectrum...and then automatically assume they're "dumb conservatives". They could be dumb, conservative, both, or neither--but to assume any of that based on the size of the family is ridiculous.

Then, when I (proudly) admitted I'm conservative she starts on the, "Oh, well you would side with them." I'm sorry, I didn't know that not wanting my own kids puts me at war with people who do want them. I always just figured different strokes and all. Sure I'll admit I'm not a huge fan of the family who lets their kids run around in a restaurant or talk loudly during a movie (unless it's a children's movie where it's expected) but I'm also not a fan of declaring it "us" verses "them".

The more I think about it that woman sounds pretty insecure in her own choice to have to be hurtful to others who choose differently.

Oh well, like I said, it wasn't a complete waste as I did meet a couple of nice people. Maybe I found a new coffee buddy or two. :)

[IHL]

I doubt your unfortunate meeting with the liberal (that's redundant - most meetings with liberals are unfortunate) had anything really to do with kids. I would suspect if you brought up just about any other topic, this woman would have a similar superior attitude. Just look at the attitudes of some of the libs that post on here.

Regarding kids - I'm with you on that. I don't have kids and don't want kids. I'm old enough now that having a child at my age would be very inconvenient. I have a problem with people pumping out kids they can't afford. Having kids is not a right - it just isn't. It's a responsibility. If you can't afford to feed, house, clothe and educate them, you don't deserve to have them. Don't expect us to pick up the slack on a bunch of kids you can't afford to have. And what is up with getting a tax break for pumping out kids! You should have a tax increase, and you should most certainly pay more school tax than me without kids! I'm not saying I shouldn't pay any school tax. I know an educated community serves everyone better. But if you have 4 kids in school and I have none, why are we paying the same amount to educate the little demons and getting a tax break to boot? Actually, I can tell you why. Because almost everyone has kids and you can probably image how long a politician would last if he/she started going after the tax breaks for couples with kids.

Anyway - it's probably good you outed this liberal. You are better off knowing where they are. They can sneak up on you if you aren't careful.

[Topiary Lady]

Hi Gnome. I think that for the most part "womens group's" are full women like the one you described. Even women in a "childfree" group will probably not like you because you are not blaming society for your choice to be child free.

I don't have any kids either and am fine with it. The thing is, I really would not do well in prison. I sort of like my creature comforts and would definitly not look cute in jail stripes. If I had children these days and they came home from school with a book like Heather Has Two Mommy's, or with a Muslim Prayer Rug weaving project, or they recited the latest PC Pledge Of Allegiance or sang the National Anthem in spanish, or any of this nonsense PC bullcrap that goes on these days, I'd be in the car and over on the school grounds in a fairly pissy mood very quickly. I suspect things would not go very well for me by the end of the day.:icon_lol:

All I can say Gnome is ENJOY your urchin-free life! Think of all the whiny liberal mothers you will not have to be surrounded with at the PTA meetings!

Oh, and about those taxes IHL. I do believe both you and I are owed some sort of refunds here. It is'nt just the schools we're paying for. We also pay for playgrounds, school lunch programs (because we owe it to others to feed their kids :mad: ), 6th grade camp, transportation, all sorts of things.

anti liberal, I don't have children due to "biological problems," but am in no way jealous of women who do have children. Trust me on this, I have a very nice life without the adorable little germ factories hanging on me. If God wanted me to have kids he'd have given them to me. However, He had other plans for me. See, God wants me to keep the economy strong. Every time I see that adorable new pair of shoes at Neiman Marcus I think to myself: Jesus loves me...yes he does!

[alwaysRight]

Pro-choice and Pro-abortion are the same thing.

If I was raped and became pregnant (which is very rare) I would most definitely keep the child. Why punish the unborn for something that wasn't their fault?

Oh BTW I am 100% against abortion in all situations. Have at that Yukon.

[Dagummit]

Well, as soon as I read that you went to a "child-free" barbecue...the first thing that popped to my mind is that it would be a pro-choice crowd. Being that pro-choice people don't really like kids and actually want them exterminated. I freaking HATE pro-choicers...I wish they would die a horrible death!!!!

but anyways, you said that you don't have patience for children, but you have more patience than I do in talking to those pro-choice idiots!

When I say that I HATE pro-choicers...I mean that I HATE them! I wish ill-will on anyone that thinks is it their choice to kill an innocent baby...I wish they be dropped in boiling oil and then have nails driven into their heads....that is how much I hate that philosophy....F-UCK THEM!!!!!

Anyhow...welcome to TAR....

[alwaysRight]

I don't care if you believe me Yukon. I don't believe 99.99% of the things that come out of your mouth. If you knew me, you would know that I am a very big advocate for the innocent unborn.

What is the difference between pro-choice and pro-abortion? Nothing.

An unborn baby has a heartbeat after 16 days of fertilization. Last time I checked something with a heartbeat meant it's alive.

Dag, does tissue have a heartbeat?

[Topiary Lady]

You're in a bad mood today Dag? It's too early for that. :icon_frow

Gnome does not need that child-free group. She has TAR now :biggrin: the place where the RIGHT people are (with a few liberals thrown in just for entertainemnt value.)

:icon_ques Could we please not turn this into yet another abortion thread :icon_ques

[Dagummit]

Dag, does tissue have a heartbeat?

in 16 days after conception, babies have their own heartbeat....hardly "tissue"...

[alwaysRight]

Precisely... I have never seen tissue with a heartbeat... I think that would be a modern day medical miracle.

[alwaysRight]

OMG... a baby is a freaking baby! Don't argue with me about my right to choose.... I choose life. I'm not a murderer. I don't condon the genocide of babies that America has put in motion.

You my dear are an idiot. Plain and simple. I have my facts straight you imbecile.

If you want to condon the murder of innocent children, then go ahead. But I won't sit on the sidelines and not do anything about it.

[alwaysRight]

And could you please stop calling me your child? It is offensive and I do not appreciate it. I am not your child and I thank Jesus for that.

[thegnomeofwrath]

Having kids is not a right - it just isn't. It's a responsibility. If you can't afford to feed, house, clothe and educate them, you don't deserve to have them. Don't expect us to pick up the slack on a bunch of kids you can't afford to have.

I actually agree VERY much with that. I bet if I'd bought up "social programs" that hag would have been all for them...it's just the neighbor family with 6 kids they wanted, can afford, and go out of their way to take care of that she's against. :icon_conf


If I had children these days and they came home from school with a book like Heather Has Two Mommy's, or with a Muslim Prayer Rug weaving project, or they recited the latest PC Pledge Of Allegiance or sang the National Anthem in spanish, or any of this nonsense PC bullcrap that goes on these days, I'd be in the car and over on the school grounds in a fairly pissy mood very quickly.

Gah, that's a parenting situations that's always worried me too. I fail to understand why teachers are fired or schools shut down at the first mention of God or Christian faith, yet that type of bull slides in with no problem. :mad:


Let me put a hypothetical situation to you:
You are walking home one evening and a gang of punks grabs you, you are thrown to the ground and repeatedly raped. Soon after you learn you are pregnant as a result of the gang rape. Would you carry this child to term or would you opt for an abortion. Be honest with your answer.

100% honest answer: Yes, I would carry a baby caused by rape to term. Even though God is all forgiving, I would never be able to forgive myself. I can't justify slaughtering an innocent over the means it was concieved.

The only exception that I can understand for abortion is if the mother and/or baby's life is threatened. I can't honestly answer what I'd do either way in that situation without actually being there.


Well, as soon as I read that you went to a "child-free" barbecue...the first thing that popped to my mind is that it would be a pro-choice crowd.

Yeah, I just figured it'd be an adult group, having a drink or two by the pool, and some nice conversation. I figured politics would come up, but I'd forgotten that most liberals prefer petty name-calling to a good solid debate. Open minded? If you say so. :icon_lol:

[FKLBRLS]

I find the choice to choose not to have kids to be very, very dangerous. And here's why. Immigrants, especially Mexicans, are streaming over the border in large excessive numbers. They have kids in Costco-sized amounts. FAR too many people here say, "I don't want kids, I don't feel like raising kids." So while our numbers dwindle (and they already are:mad: ), New Mexico (and I'm not talking about the state) is cranking out kids on a huge scale. The result will be an ethnic cleansing on the part of hispanics the likes of which we have never seen. I don't want to control the amount of kids anyone has, regardless of race, but when one race voluntarily chooses to die out because they "don't feel like it" is just absurd. This is not just a problem here, it is also very bad in places like Japan and Europe. In Europe, the situation is especially bad because the native Europeans are having little to no kids while incoming Muslims and Indians (from India) and Africans and Turks are the only ones having kids and it's going to wipe the original Europeans out.

That's why I'll have 10-20 kids. It's not like I hate Mexicans or anyone else, but I do dislike it when one group of people basically kills themself off while another group of people procreates to the point that they will finish off the rest of the dying first group.

And even worse, with so many people choosing to have little or no kids, our actual population could go down, which would be quite bad.

[FKLBRLS]

You are walking home one evening and a gang of punks grabs you, you are thrown to the ground and repeatedly raped. Soon after you learn you are pregnant as a result of the gang rape. Would you carry this child to term or would you opt for an abortion. Be honest with your answer.
An honest question deserves an honest answer. If I was a woman and that happened to me, this would be my response. First, I would sit comfortable with the fact that only 1-2% of rapes end up in causing pregnancy. Then, right after filing the police report, I would go STRAIGHT to the doctor to request the morning-after pill. If I did not do this right afterward I would consider it basically saying that I want the child. I would then reflect on several things: #1-why do I live in a shitty area with gangbangers, #2-why do I walk going anywhere when driving is easier and faster, #3-if I do live in a questionable area, why was I not carrying a concealed gun, and #4-WHY WAS I OUT WALKING AT NIGHT!? If, by some amazing feat, the pill was still not enough, then I would track down the rapist and thoroughly beat the shit out of him, then I would put the baby up for adoption once it is born. There is a long waiting list for adoptions, it's not like there is a shortage for people who want to adopt kids. I would not punish the child for something that is not it's fault.

[Jimbo]

EVERYONE IGNORE YUKON. I"M SICK OF READING HIS POSTS IN QUOTES.

Anyway, I'll answer his question for the hell of it:

Is it the childs fault you were raped?
Is what happened that night to be taken out on the child?
Because you were brutally raped, tortured, anything you want, is it the child inside yous' fault?

No, it isn't.

[Peace_by_superior _power]

i dont know why people dont want children. making them is fun and they are fun to be with. i love babies. granted i really dont want one now or in the near future. but i reallly want to have a son to go hunting with and teach how to play football and drive. i dont want any girls cause i know what guys think and i dont want any guy thinking about my daughter like that.

[Jimbo]

yea i feel the same way as peace. if even 1% of the guys in the future think even .1% the way I do, i dont want a girl :D

[Dr. Madd]

Always Right: Ignore the Yukon Buttmonkey. I cancelled my subscription to his opinion and I feel great. I believe Abortionists should have their medical licenses pulled and not be allowed to work within fifteen miles of ANY medical facility. I believe people who want to abort babies are no better than the Nazis who killed Jews. And like the Nazis, they want to make useful products from their helpless victims. Liberals hate Goodness. They try to bring down Christians and Jews, they hate America and Great Britain and Israel and God.
They despise traditional values and the Three Stooges and Mr. Rogers- I'm getting all worked up here! They hate babies because Babies are the ultimate in Innocence and innocence and goodness are anathema to the Liberal bolshevik sleazebags!

[earthtoned]

Liberals hate Goodness.

Con: LIBERALS HATE GOODNESS
Lib: BUSH IS A BABY KILLER
Con : Liberals are brain dead!
Lib: Bush is mentally retarded!

are you really all that different?

really, ya'll need to calm down a little. As much as i can sympathize with some of your feelings here, i find it ironic that in the same thread where it is argued that liberals argue from a point of superiority and arrogance, that i have to read about what a godless, hellbound, evil, boiling-oil-pit deserving human being that I apparently am.. (not that i was named specifically).

oh, and for the record, mr rogers supported john kerry ...

Contributor Candidate or PAC Amount Date
ROGERS, FRED M
PITTSBURGH, PA 15213 KERRY, JOHN F (D)
Senate - MA
KERRY COMMITTEE $1,000
general 10/16/02

[Topiary Lady]

Good luck finding a woman that wants to have 10 kids Fklbrls! OMG!!!

I see where you're going with the population #'s Fk. Thing is though, if someone really does not want to be a parent then it's a good idea for them to not have kids just because it's the thing to do. Too many kids in this world are having to raise themselves or have the government care for them because of lack of interest by the parent. Parenting, the most serious of jobs, should not be taken lightly.

Happy procreating fklbrls (after you are grown, married and making a ridiculous amount of money of course.):icon_wink

[FKLBRLS]

I actually used to be against large families, mainly because at my dad's there were 5 of us (kids) total and my dad and stepmom were assholes at all of us. But then I realized that large families are fun for the parent who then has more people to control. Plus, if I become a pilot that means that half the month I'll be home anyway.

[Dr. Madd]

I plan on having at least two. Myra and I (If I may be so bold) were discussing the idea about it, after marriage and We like the name Theodore for a boy and Martha Rose for a Girl.