G Dub. And I'm Not Talking About the President.

[BushRocks]

GLOBAL WARMING!!!

http://www.meaus.com/2004-al-gore.JPEG

I was reading the local newspaper this morning when I stumbled across a very good editorial by William Rusher, a Fellow of the Claremont Institute for the Study of Statesmanship and Political Philosophy.

Here are a few excerpts:

"The New York Times' headline read, "America in Longest Warm Spell Since 1776; Temperature Line Records a 25-Year Rise." Well, what's so new about that? The Times has been having an historic fit about global warming for year's hasn't it?

Yes, but that particular headline ran in the good gray Times on March 27, 1933 -- 73 years ago. What's more, the Times changed its mind dramatically on the subject 42 years later, in 1975, when it startled its readers on May 21 with "Scientists Ponder Why World's Climate is Changing; A Major Cooling Widely Considered to Be Inevitible."

The last major attack of hysteria, in the mid-1970s, focused on the peril of global cooling, and was especially severe. Fortune magazine declared in February 1974 that "As for the present cooling trend a number of leading climatologists have concluded that it is very bad news indeed. It is the root cause of a lot of that unpleasant weather around the world and they warn that it carries the potential for human disasters of unprecedented magnitude."

But the prize for sheer terrorizing surely belonged to Lowell Ponte, whose 1976 book "The Cooling" (a predecessor of Al Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth," though from the opposite point of view) asserted that "The cooling has already killed hundreds of thousands of people in poor nations." If countermeasures weren't taken, he warned, it would lead to "world famine, world chaos, and probably world war, and this could all come by the year 2000."

HMM, SOUND FAMILIAR?

"Most scientists do agree that the earth has warmed a little more than a degree in the last 100 years. That doesn't mean scientists concur that mankind is to blame. Even if that were the case, the impact of warming is unclear." And in it's wisest paragraph it concludes, "This isn't a question of science. It's a question of whether Americans can trust what the media tells them about science."

The bottomline is that no one can prove that humans are to blame, and judging by history we should all conclude that BLOW HARDS have determined the political horizon on climate change and should be thrown to the way side. What's next? Maybe global cooling?

[Madcowhunter]

I'm burning here.
This is the first time I've felt 98 degree temperature in Washington.

[Nerf Hofflemire]

Hi Br, haven't seen you around in a while, good to see you.
If this is the hottest since 1776, what was 1776? Just a warm spell? Then why couldn't this just be a warm spell? or did they have global warming back then too, and it just went away?

It's getting hotter.
Al Gore is whining about global warming.

Therefore (insert big ecoing voice) IT MUST BE GLOBAL WARMING!

It's going to go away. The world goes through temperture changes (1776?). some years will be really hot, some will be really cold. We didn't cause the iceage, did we?

For the record, it's pretty cool up in New England, wasn't hot at all today.

[Peace_by_superior _power]

i agree with you sf, but we have had some pretty bad scorchers lately. two weeks ago it was like 104, not to fun for football, but i love the rain we have had lately nice and long thunderstorms. as for the global warming there is no scientific way to prove anything. first the earth is about 4.6 billion years old, and we humans have been on it for about 20,000 years. i dont think we can prove or disprove anything when we are really unsure on key events such as if we are in an ice age or not.

[Guns R Cool]

I live in Wisconsin, theres no such thing as normal weather here.

I hear you. My grandma live outside of Madison in Portage. Or is it Portgage? Temperature is always wack up there. Just like in Missouri. Storm came through and knocked out all of our power and now it's up in the high 90s and low 100s.

[FKLBRLS]

Global warming, global cooling, it just goes to show that climate varies. And the people that purport the theories can get away with it on the grounds that "I'm a scientist and you're not, therefor I am right." Well it doesn't take a scientist to see that these men are full of shit.

It's been quite hot the last few days in Socal. But on Saturday, for about an hour, we had a violent thunderstorm, the rain was coming down fast and hard and in huge drops, and for a few seconds hail the size of marbles fell. Then it went back to 100+ (on saturday it was over 110).

[stilljammin]

Whether there's humans on earth or not, this planet will keep getting hot until another ice age hits. However, it's up to humans to decide how fast it takes, and so far, we've sped it up quite a bit.

[Nerf Hofflemire]

...so far, we've sped it up quite a bit.

Why do you belive that humans are to blame for global warming?

[stilljammin]

Now if you were to read my post again, you'll realize that's not what I said.

It's ok though, I'll give you a second chance to redeem yourself. I said they have sped it up, I did not say they were to blame.

[Nerf Hofflemire]

Maybe I should rephrase what I said. Why exactly do you belive that we are speeding up the process of global warming? I firmly belive that humans have nothing to do with global warming.

[stilljammin]

Concentration of carbon dioxide has increased in the atmosphere by 30% since the beginning of the industrial revolution. Methane concentrations have doubled. Nitrous oxide concentrations have risen by about 15%.

All of which are greenhouse gases that can be pumped into the air by anything from cars to power plants (all of which are man-made and man-operated). Coincidence? I think not.

[Nerf Hofflemire]

What do you think caused the ice age?

Cavemen's fires?

Earth goes in chages. Humans don't have any effect on it whatsoever.

[stilljammin]

That's what I'm saying. You're obviously not reading my posts. Try this site for further instruction http://secure.hop.com/

The earth's climate changes on it's own. HOWEVER, humans can alter the speed of the evolving climate by increasing or decreasing the amount of green house gases in our atmosphere. And that's what we're doing, we're speeding up how fast we're gonna go into the next iceage.

[Dr. Madd]

I like your avatar Nerf! Nice way to skewer Cindy on her own petard AND show support for our friend GRC!

Now on topic.... When the Greenpeace guy says that any kind of weather trend is a sign of Global warming, you know he's a madman!

[Guns R Cool]

http://www.friendsofscience.org/FOS/climate_1.wmv
http://www.friendsofscience.org/FOS/climate_2.wmv
http://www.friendsofscience.org/FOS/climate_3.wmv
http://www.friendsofscience.org/FOS/climate_4.wmv
http://www.friendsofscience.org/FOS/climate_5.wmv

Fact: CO2 levels increase as a result of temperature rise. The temperature does not rise as a result of CO2 increases.

Fact: Temperature rise and decrease is a result of the sun's increase and decrease in temperature.

Fact: Storms are more severe the cooler the weather is.

Fact: CO2 is consumed by plants. The rise in CO2 cause plants to grow larger and healthier than in the past.

Fact: The earth has been cooling for the last several years.

Fact: There is no proof that humans cause climate changes.

Fact: The higher the amount of CO2 in our atmosphere, the healthier our plants are.

[BushRocks]

Oh, and stilljammin,

Humans have decreased emissions of greenhouse gases dramatically since the 1970s.

Let me guess, your a Kyoto Treaty liberal?

[stilljammin]

http://www.friendsofscience.org/FOS/climate_1.wmv
http://www.friendsofscience.org/FOS/climate_2.wmv
http://www.friendsofscience.org/FOS/climate_3.wmv
http://www.friendsofscience.org/FOS/climate_4.wmv
http://www.friendsofscience.org/FOS/climate_5.wmv

Fact: CO2 levels increase as a result of temperature rise. The temperature does not rise as a result of CO2 increases.

Fact: Temperature rise and decrease is a result of the sun's increase and decrease in temperature.

Fact: Storms are more severe the cooler the weather is.

Fact: CO2 is consumed by plants. The rise in CO2 cause plants to grow larger and healthier than in the past.

Fact: The earth has been cooling for the last several years.

Fact: There is no proof that humans cause climate changes.

Fact: The higher the amount of CO2 in our atmosphere, the healthier our plants are.
http://yosemite.epa.gov/oar/globalwarming.nsf/content/Climate.html

I'm sure this site can disprove most of what you just spewed to me their. I don't have the time to spoonfeed it to you.

[Guns R Cool]

You didn't watch the videos. If you had, you would've realized that the videos disprove your link. Also, that graph on your site is know as the "hockey stick graph." Its creator ignored most aspects of the earth's temperature. Again, my link disproves that in more detail. Why don't you watch it?

[Guns R Cool]

Lol, he logged off after I PWND him in this thread and the Gun Control thread. Oh well. View my video links, very good videos and it would be worth your while to watch them. Gives you some uncommon knowledge about global warming.

[stilljammin]

Lol, he logged off after I PWND him in this thread and the Gun Control thread. Oh well. View my video links, very good videos and it would be worth your while to watch them. Gives you some uncommon knowledge about global warming.
Yeah, that's it. Or I don't have the time to constantly reply to constantly updating threads. I do have a life, I can't really worry myself over 1 hour on forum, let alone a forum like this. How about you, do you get outside much?

I'll watch your movies when I have a chance.

[Guns R Cool]

Then don't provide "proof" that you can disprove them before you even watch the videos. Also, don't just post the first link you find using google. Instead of calling everything I said a lie, construct a rebuttal to what I said by providing evidence. That link was not evidence. All of it was dismissed as entirely incorrect or biased reporting done by liberals to further their agendas in the videos.

[Wadi66]

let alone a forum like this.a forum like this? you mean a forum that actually allows those with opposing opinions to post those opinions? feel free to exit if you don't think this forum worthy of your time. more than likely though you've discovered this bunch aren't as stupid as you would like them to be.

thanks for playing.

[stilljammin]

Then don't provide "proof" that you can disprove them before you even watch the videos. Also, don't just post the first link you find using google. Instead of calling everything I said a lie, construct a rebuttal to what I said by providing evidence. That link was not evidence. All of it was dismissed as entirely incorrect or biased reporting done by liberals to further their agendas in the videos.
Yeah, especially the epa.gov

Btw, I didn't google.

[Guns R Cool]

And I'm still waiting for you to watch the videos and construct an argument against them, since you're so determined that they're false.

[earthtoned]

there are competant scientists on both sides of this issue, all of whom can make very intelligent conclusions based on their interpretations of data. The wikipedia entry on global warming is excellent, and deals with both its supporters and skeptics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming

i get a little tired hearing about how "the scientists agree its real" or "the scientists have debunked global warming". This should be a scientific debate, not a political one.

in todays world you can just jump on the internet and find "facts" to support anything you want to believe. i tend to believe in human caused global warming because of the consensus from what i feel are trusted sources. please note that "consensus" does not mean that every single scientist in the world agrees with the conclusions, and they certainly cant agree on what should be DONE about it. a consensus means that a majority of trusted scientific organizations in that field have come forth with their conclusions supporting the theory of human caused global warming. the most compelling are the following:

The US National Academy of Sciences
The American Meteorological Society
The American Geophysical Union
The American Association for the Advancement of Science
The Union of Concerned Scientists

youre welcome to counter these immensely respected institutions with "friendsofsciece.com" at your own peril.

some highly respected individuals that still question validity of the science include:

Patrick Michaels from the Department of Environmental Services at the University of Virginia
Robert Balling of Arizona State University
Sherwood B. Idso of the U.S. Water Conservation Laboratory [21]
S. Fred Singer, atmospheric physicist and professor emeritus of environmental sciences at the University of Virginia
Richard Lindzen of Massachusetts Institute of Technology.
Ross McKitrick
Frederick Seitz (anti-global warming treaties, accepts the temperature rise as real, but not yet properly explained)
William M. Gray, emeritus professor at Colorado State University and one of the world's leading experts on tropical storms. Claims that there is no link between increasing ocean temperatures and more intense hurricanes in recent decades and dismisses computer climate models. [22].
Roy Spencer, known for his satellite-based temperbal_warming_controversy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming_controversy

one last thing..

if the consensus science turns out wrong, thats great for the world, but even if theres a tiny chance that they are right, shouldnt it at least be adressed? especially when the collateral results of a serious crackdown on co2 could include the following:

cleaner air
energy independance
revival of the US auto industry
the removal of a huge source of funds that fund terrorism (oil)

these should be our goals anyhow.