Republican's Against Bush

[Dagummit]

Many of you all by now have seen my new avatar. It is from a bumper sticker sold here: http://www.cafepress.com/irregulargoods.9707799

I first saw it some months ago and actually got sort of offended by the driver. "Why should a conservative NOT support a conservative President?"

Well over the course of the months to follow I have seen some light....I AM NOT A PUPPET ANYMORE!

But oh let me list the ways: (no particular order)
1- The freaking deficit! A 7 trillion dollar budget? That means "we" common folk will be paying for this for YEARS in increased taxes.

2- Abortion - Bush SWORE that he would take this fight to the lines in every fashion known to the Executive Office (this was for the 2000 election). To this day, what has he done? He HAS signed off on a partial birth abortion ban, good for him, but it got "overruled" by one judge. What did he do about that? He sat back and basically said "oh well".

3- The War on Terror - Good for him that he led the liberation of two countries, but why has it taken five years and BILLIONS of dollars? I'll tell you why, he is pacifying the left by not being "hard" enough. Any former military person here knows damned well the only way to defeat the enemy is to attack them so hard and to demoralize their army. We continue to this day in being "civil" against our enemy.

4- Reformed Christian going to get executed! - Mind you this is in one of those liberated countries! What is Bush doing? "Well, it disappoints me that this is happening..." BULLSHIT...CUT TIES NOW! PULL THE MILITARY OUT OF THERE. To stay implies that we support their decision to do something as wrong as that.

5- The UN - Although he appointed Bolton, which surprised the hell out of me! Bolton is only one person. Bush and a Republican Senate should start excommunication plans from the UN...they are worthless and through their continual failed "inspections and resolutions", it has led to the embarrassment of us not finding the WMD's..which we all knew went to Syria, but now our credibility on this issue is practically ruined. At least hold back the dues!

6- Supreme Court nominees - Bush stated that he would put people out of the mold of Thomas and Scalia...what does he do? He nominated Miers! Then on to Alito...why he may be in the long run okay, what about Janice Rodgers Brown or Roy Moore? Those are KNOWN hard line conservatives!

7- Taxes - Bush should have kept those $300 "let's appeal to the poverished" checks that he handed out and applied that to the deficit. If Bush did SUCH great tax reform, then why in the first time in my life am I paying taxes at the end of the year versus getting a refund? I had more exemptions this year and about the same salary as last year, but yet am paying...

8- Schools - Our schools are shit! They are the laughing stock all over the civilized world. Grant it, it is not Bush's fault per se, but as Wadi spoke of in another post, he has the controls to change them.

9 - Open borders! - I don't even need to argue this one...it is no hidden secret that we have a liberal revolving door on our borders...something Bush VOWED to close in his last campaign!

10- Gun Control - We are the majority! Why are we allowing this to continue to happen?

11- Filibusters - This, and the courts, are the methods that give the democrats their power as a minority...filibusters should be banned, they have served their purpose in history...I'll explain the history if any needs me to and you'll see what I am saying. While this is not Bush's fault, it IS our Republican Senate...

Look, I could keep going...but the number one thing I see Bush having a problem with is lack of fortitude (ball-less) towards the opposition (democrats)...he just appeases them way to much.

To those staunch Bush supporters out there in TARland...remember I too was a staunch Bush supporter, I defended him on here, at work, etc and have made an ASS out of myself sometimes in doing so. I finally said, I won't be a puppet...you all shouldn't either. If you trully think he is doing a great job, then so be it. But I don't...I think he has abandoned the base that got him where he is today. He has trully disappointed me. :icon_frow

It is high time we republicans take back what so many great republicans laid down before us...our country is dissolving right in front of us and what is sad is that we have the majority and are letting it happen...let me correct myself, that isn't sad, that is OUTRAGIOUS!

Feel free to flame me if you must...I am okay with it...but I am willing to bet that more people on here agree with me in most of this context than disagree with me.

[Dagummit]

Let me speak briefly about the bumper sticker site...I realize there is a laod of lib material there...that isn't the point. I still wouldn't have an anti-W (the W with the red line though it) sticker on my property, for it says you are a liberal to most...but something that says that you are Conservative and yet oppose the unconservative ways that Bush has been doing speaks volumes...anyways...

Maybe a good bumper sticker would be "Conservatives Against Bush".

[PolyPartisan]

I'm very impressed, Dag. I don't consider myself anti-Bush (Although I'm really losing my patience with the administration), but it's great to see people who refuse to get bent on the idea of party affiliations. Kudos to Dag!

[Devil_rules_in_extremes]

Now your talking my language DAG... We need Government officials in office that reflect the sentiment of the people...

[Madcowhunter]

Welcome to the club Dag.
It's time we all return to the real conservative ideology, and take back the Republican party.

[Jimbo]

I agree, but Bush is still MUCH better than the alternative

[BushRocks]

Dag, I only have one question. I respect your opinion, and I hope you can respect mine, but, if George W. Bush appeases liberals so much as you say, why do they HATE him so badly? If Bush does such liberal things, like spending etc, why do they despise him so much?

[Oi_Ve]

Dag, just so you know, the guy in Afghanistan is getting off free in case you didn't see the link I provided.

Also...


Accept the inevitable and just conform to Libertarianism now. Make the Republican libertarian, or just abandon the republicans and join us over here in libertarian land.

IT IS YOUR DESTINY!

[BushRocks]

I'm not a right wing extremist, I know you are a self proclaimed Dag, but as DRIE knows, the Devil rules in extremes. So just because I support our President that makes me a puppet? I don't follow him blindly, I disagree with things he does, but I also support alot of the things he has done. He does frustrate me at times, but no President is ever perfect and pleases everybody.

Dag, so you'd be happy if abortion was completely banned in this country right now? I would too, but to think that President Bush can do that on a whim is absurd, and to blame him is worse. You cannot just overrule almost 35 years of precedent in the blink of an eye, as much as it pains you and I to see babies dying, the majority of Americans are pro-choice, they all aren't hardline conservatives who want to ban abortion. Look at SD, as red as that state is, look at what a tough time they're having with the ban.

Dag, what do you want him to do with the 1,952 miles of U.S. Mexican border, setup turrets to keep Mexicans out so he can be called Hitler even more, so he can be called a blood thirsty criminal even more than liberals already call him that? Militarize it maybe so he can be called a dictator? Everytime border patrol increases of equipment and funding and increases in border patrol agents has hit his desk he's signed them, so now are you gonna bitch at him for spending too much money on Border Security to help keep illegals out?

Reagan had a big deficit when he was in office as well, and look what it did for the 1990s economic boom. President Bush's budgets have decreased non-security discretionary spending every year since 2001. The deficit is a little less than 4.5 percent of GDP and the budget is expected to cut the deficit in half by 2009 to 1.4 percent of GDP, just in time for somebody else to take credit for the deficit reduction. President Bush wants to make his tax cuts permanent too.

To say that President Bush is soft with the UN is bullshit Dag, we did practically ignore the UN when we toppled Saddam. John Bolton is incredibly almost single handly telling the UN to reform or they can go F themselves. Democrats and your Republicans against Bush were just giving him absolute hell for this appointment, Ohio Senator Voinovich(R) WEPT because of it but now says it was a solid pick and Bolton is doing a fine job. Please, give me a break. Okay, so you want us to excommunicate ourselves with the UN? That's setting a great example Dag, seeing as how we want Iran to go along with us in the UN so they don't blow up Israel and we won't have to unilateraly fix this too. We're using the UN to help fix this diplomatically. There is no way in hell that Iran would collapse under UN pressure if the last remaining super power in the world wasnt doing most of the pressuring. They know the Europeans have no balls. And Asia doesn't give a shit. Liberals despise President Bush because of his stubborn attitude with the UN and I saw a shirt the other day of Bush wiping his ass with UN toilet paper. It made me chuckle.

President Bush basically told the Unions to go screw themselves when he created no child left behind. Our teachers are finally be held accountable for what they teach or the lack there of in the classroom, now teachers cant hide under the unions skirt any longer. It was just reported on FOX News today America's fourth graders posted the best reading and math scores in the test's history. Eighth graders earned the highest math scores recorded by NAEP. Students are becoming more and more efficent every year since NCLB because teachers know that we're watching. You want to bitch at Bush for our shitty school system that he didnt create, but then bitch at him for trying to hold teachers and schools accountable so our kids won't slip through the cracks?

The President openly wants to have a Constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage. He doesn't even want civil unions, is that conservative enough on the issue for you? Or would you like him to support the genocide of gays too?

You want to ban filibusters Dag? So then when Democrats take over Congress (heaven forbid) Republicans can't do a damn thing? If Democrats propose some screwed up hippie law, we couldn't do anything about it. That's a raw deal, I want no part of a filibuster ban. You say its OUR Republican congress, that's true, but one day its gonna be, THEIR Democrat Congress, and we would be screwed.

[Dagummit]

BR...

I knew you'd be one of the main people who disagree with me and that is fine. We can see eye to eye on many things, but sometimes we'll just have to walk on different sides...nothing wrong with that.

But, do I think you are a puppet? I never said you were, I said that I was tired of being a puppet. My ideologies are extremely far right and the Republicans (including Bush) should be pushing for a more conservative agenda instead of allowing the libs to gain more ground.

On abortion...yes, I absolutely think that Bush has failed his base in moving towards Roe vs. Wade over-turned. Either that or move to introduce legislation to get it constitutionally banned. Killing babies for "choice" is completely evil and disrespectful of the human race. And Bush says quite often, you are either with him or against him...well W, that street runs both ways... Oh yeah, where do you get the notion that the majority of Americans are pro-choice...every poll (even the liberal ones) state that the country is pro-life, against abortion. I saw a Zogby poll that stated that 85% of Americans felt abortion on demand is wrong and should be stopped. That is 85 out of every 100 Americans....While this number reflects those who still think it is okay in extreme situations...hell it is a start!

About filibusters...you want to know the history of the filibuster? Back at the birth of our country, when the elected officials had to gather to make law, it took days, sometimes weeks to get everyone in one spot. Sooo...the forefathers made a special tool that would allow a single Senator the power to stop all legislation in the event that he didn't have enough of his party there to have a fair vote. The filibuster kept one party from making law while the other parties weren't even present. But while that filibuster was held, it had to be 24/7 and NO OTHER LAW could be passed until that Senator lifted the filibuster or 75% of the available Senators could hold a cloture vote and over power it. It has had changes over the years and ANY ruling majority in the Senate can change it. It doesn't need a super majority to pass, only a majority, and a change in Senate rules can't be filibustered (from what I understand). So if the dems ever get back into power, they could technically change it to whatever they like...regardless of what the republicans did. Filibusters (like labor unions) have served their purpose, but are no longer needed. The dem's now use it as a whiny ass tool that says the minority is in charge...and I am tired of hearing the republicans threaten the "nuclear option". Stop making threats and do it!

You also used the same old song and dance of:
Well, if Bush didn't win look at what we would have been left with (Kerry).
I understand that, I would hate it if Kerry won or if any lib won, but if the base of the conservative movement disagrees with the primary party that represents us and we continue to vote for them, when are they ever going to hear our cry? I bet if they weren't in office and the opposition won, they'd start listening....

On the note that no democrats like Bush...yeah, that is obvious...they never will...they will never like anyone other than one of their own, so all the more reason for Bush to say "screw you" and start doing it the conservative way.

Look BR...you can't forget that I was just like you once..."Bush can do no wrong". But after I sat back and started seeing the same old trend happening, I got sick of it. But please don't get me confused with a Bush hater...I don't hate the man, I am just disappointed in him right now. He still can change...but until he does, I can't support him wholeheartedly like I have in the past. AND there are still, and always will be, things that I support him on. And I don't blame him for everything...not even a quarter of things...most things I blame the Republican party for...they have lost their way. ALl the more reason to have Congressional term limits.

[alwaysRight]

Dag, I think there is a lot of people like you out there, including me. The only thing is I'm not a Republican, I'm a Constitutionalist.

I agree with all you said. I remember being so excited when I could FINALLY vote in 2004. It was so exciting because I had seen all that Bush had done and was excited for him to continue on... But he didn't. And I'm dissappointed. I like him as a person, he's a great guy. I like how down-to-earth he is, but he just isn't fulfilling all the promises he made... at all.

I know a lot of republicans that are fed up with this administration. Maybe it's time that he sees that he's losing the support of his side.

[alwaysRight]

Look BR...you can't forget that I was just like you once..."Bush can do no wrong". But after I sat back and started seeing the same old trend happening, I got sick of it. But please don't get me confused with a Bush hater...I don't hate the man, I am just disappointed in him right now. He still can change...but until he does, I can't support him wholeheartedly like I have in the past. AND there are still, and always will be, things that I support him on. And I don't blame him for everything...not even a quarter of things...most things I blame the Republican party for...they have lost their way. ALl the more reason to have Congressional term limits.

I couldn't of said it any better. I think this is becoming a reality for a lot of people.

[BushRocks]

Look BR...you can't forget that I was just like you once..."Bush can do no wrong". But after I sat back and started seeing the same old trend happening, I got sick of it. But please don't get me confused with a Bush hater...I don't hate the man, I am just disappointed in him right now. He still can change...but until he does, I can't support him wholeheartedly like I have in the past. AND there are still, and always will be, things that I support him on. And I don't blame him for everything...not even a quarter of things...most things I blame the Republican party for...they have lost their way. ALl the more reason to have Congressional term limits.

Dag, you're a good guy, and I want to thank you for holding a civil debate with me on this. But I don't want you to think that I have the notion of "Bush can do no wrong." As I stated before, I do get disappointed at him at times, much like you and AR and a lot of others. He had a mandate, now he's a lame duck. The war has got to play a major role in his "lack of domestic agenda" in his second term, and I understand you want a guy to do both, but seeing as how the President takes so much heat for it, it would seem hard to multi-task when he's constantly got to defend his position. I understand your position, I feel it in ways too, but I'm so sick of liberals blaming our President for everything that goes wrong. Even some moderates. It gets old, and that is why I think we'll still hold a Republican majority in both houses this year. Hopefully W will turn his lame duck status into a Bully Pulpit, as he had in 2001,02,03,and 04.

[FKLBRLS]

I am certainly not a Bush hater, and would HATE to see a liberal in office, but I cannot stand his increasing lack of balls. The left is giving him shit, but Busch needs to step up to the plate and do something about it. Like I said, I disagree with Bush on certain issues, namely the border, abortion, and anti-gun control. He hasn't been doing enough. But the liberals would have been worse, for many of those issues would either be still unresolved or even made worse.

Also, I cannot stand the "Let's blame Bush for everything" attitude. It is almost sickening, it is like what they do to Snowball the pig in the book Animal Farm. Essentially, Snowball's political opponent, the Stalin-like Napoleon, banishes Snowball from Animal Farm and every time something goes wrong it is automatically Snowball's fault, even if it wasn't. AND, even though Snowball fought proudly in a battle against the humans in the beginning of the book, "documents have been found that prove that Snowball wasn't on our side", (later, "documents" said Snowball actually fought on the opposite side, even though he really fought on the animal's side) Sound familiar? How about, "we have 'documents' that 'prove' Bush never was in the Air Natl Guard."?

My point is that Bush is blamed for everything and he shouldn't be but also he should get some balls and take action. I will not put an "I'm against Bush sticker" on my car but I certainly will not put a "I like Bush" sticker on it either. I would much, much rather have Ronald Reagan as president, God rest his soul...

[FKLBRLS]

I have another, much more serious observation to point out. You see all over the media how Bush is labeled a "conservative extremist", which we know he is not. Well now liberal Republicans such as Guiliani and McCain are being touted as "the right choice, moderates who understand everyone". What that means is that basically these guys are liberals in disguise. But the serious part is that if those guys are considered moderate, what does that make us? If Bush is being labeled as a facist totalitarian, then us conservatives are considered all the way over there. We will become outcasts, shunned by liberals in power and the people whose thoughts are dicatated by them. They will be taught that we are evil and should be shunned. We will never win any political majority. We will always be cast aside, as the country becomes more and more socialist, eventually becoming Soviet-like outright. Everyone will think conservatives are evil, and will be so full of lies there will be little hope. Our Christian heritage and faith will be essentially banned. Understand that anyone we try to put in office will either be brought down by liberal propaganda and not elected or, once elected, will become progressively liberal, kind of like what Bush is doing.

So we have 2 options basically, or we will a few decades down the road. We can either flee to Ireland, which as far as I am aware is still somewhat conservative, or we can have a coup, take over the now-liberal-socialist white house and reinstate the original constitution and the original American spirit. Also, if at any time the government decides to take away our weapons, I say use them on the cops who want to take them. If we could get a mass anti-gun control protest out there, we could essentially keep our arms. BUT, beforehand, we must stock up on ammo for when the cops come back after shooting them the first time.

[The Hawk]

I must admit, I have been extremely disappointed in Bush's handling of the southern border. However, he has stated his support of bill HR4437, but I would still like to see him sternly put his foot down on illegal immigrants. I was also disappointed in how he compromised with the liberals during his Supreme Court nominations. He should simply selected 2 strong conservatives. One another note, though I don't necessarily agree with Dag., I do like how you maintained Loyal Opposition - a lost art in today's political landscape.

[Madcowhunter]

I am becoming increasingly dissapointed with the Republican Party. I just wish the Constitutional Party or the Libertarian Party were more popular than they are.

Where have all the Conservatives gone?

[Dagummit]

Before everyone thinks I am a Bush-hater or someone who blames Bush for everything, well guess again. I would say pull your head out of your ass, but it is Sunday morning.

Just because someone disagrees with Bush, you shouldn't automatically label them as anti-Bush. That is absurd. People can disagree with politicians in their corner.

But I stand firm in what I said. I don't agree with him. I don't think he is doing an overall good job as President. THAT IS NOT SAYING I WANT A LIB IN OFFICE! But again, I will NOT continue to support the Republican Party if they keep putting moderates up on the line.

If for the 2008 election it came down to McCain or Giuliani for the Republican bid and the dems put up Hillary, I WOULD NOT VOTE FOR THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE! I would vote Constitutionalist. If, Lord forbid, Hillary made it into the White House, then the Republican Party would have no one else to blame but themselves. For they allowed ANOTHER moderate, almost liberal, nominee to go forward. It is high time the strong conservatives take back the Republican Party!

Now what they should do is pay attention to some of these polls and realize that the reason that Bush is so low on them is because the conservative base is starting to go against him overall. Then maybe they could put someone like Allen up for bid in 08.

[Oi_Ve]

They've all come over here, MCH. Over here, where people relish in the thought of free market economics and small government while simultaneously working towards those ends...its really delightful.

You guys should join us :icon_mrgr

Here's some links for ya to explore at your discression...

http://www.lp.org - for those new to libertarian philosophy
http://www.l4l.org - for those who want a libertarian argument against abortion
http://www.cato.org - for those of you want evidence that libertarians aren't just demagouges

And remember my saying: conservatives are just libertarians who don't know it yet.

[alwaysRight]

Dag, I don't think anyone is calling you a Bush-hater. We're all more or less agreeing with you. I am so surprised reading this thread that so many other people are very dissappointed in Bush. We all, like you, like Bush, but we, like you, don't think he's doing a good job.

Oi_ve, I'm a Constitutionalist, what's the biggest difference between me and a Libertarian?

[Dagummit]

They've all come over here, MCH. Over here, where people relish in the thought of free market economics and small government while simultaneously working towards those ends...its really delightful.

One of the problems that I have with the Libertarian Party is that they don't believe in setting law to block the obvious bad shit, like abortion or burning the flag...(both of which you, OV, oppose to but feel the gov't has no place to make law against it).

I can't support a party that feels that way. My biggest passions in this world are anti-abortion measures, allowing God in the public place (the separation of church/ state is completely being read backwards), gun rights, and to demolish ALL social programs. The Constitutionalist Party supports all of that...AND the Republican Party used too. :icon_frow

[Jimbo]

One of the problems that I have with the Libertarian Party is that they don't believe in setting law to block the obvious bad shit, like abortion or burning the flag...(both of which you, OV, oppose to but feel the gov't has no place to make law against it).

I can't support a party that feels that way. My biggest passions in this world are anti-abortion measures, allowing God in the public place (the separation of church/ state is completely being read backwards), gun rights, and to demolish ALL social programs. The Constitutionalist Party supports all of that...AND the Republican Party used too. :icon_frow

I agree with that. I think that the republican party is working to hard to make the libs happy and that is something we should be avoiding at all costs. Europe tried that with Hitler, remember?

[alwaysRight]

http://constitutionparty.org

Go here, read around a bit, it's an awesome party.

I found this article there, it's interesting... http://constitutionparty.org/news.php?aid=271

[Oi_Ve]

One of the problems that I have with the Libertarian Party is that they don't believe in setting law to block the obvious bad shit, like abortion or burning the flag...(both of which you, OV, oppose to but feel the gov't has no place to make law against it).

I can't support a party that feels that way. My biggest passions in this world are anti-abortion measures, allowing God in the public place (the separation of church/ state is completely being read backwards), gun rights, and to demolish ALL social programs. The Constitutionalist Party supports all of that...AND the Republican Party used too. :icon_frow

The following is an accurate explanation as to why the Libertarian Party feels that the government does no need to make laws concerning abortion.

http://www.harrybrowne.org/articles/Abortion.htm

Basically it amounts not an issue of morality for the party. In my personal belief parties should run on platforms of morality: that comes off as far too demagougish to me.
Instead, they should run on practicality, and thats the Libertarian stance:

The government is far too ineffiecient to stop abortions. They can't stop drugs, they can't control their spending, they can't fix medicare, they can't fix social security, they can't control the border, FEMA runs around like a chicken with its head cut off, and about the only thing all members of the government stand for is "protecting our children".

AND YOU EXPECT THEM TO STOP ABORTIONS?! HA!

As the man said, you'll do better at nipping the root rather than the bud.

[Oi_Ve]

I try and stay away from Constitutionalists. Talk about nut jobs! :wink:

Always Right, the major differences between Constitutionalists and Libertarians is on free trade.

Constitutionalists believe "the United States government has engaged in a free trade policy which has destroyed or endangered important segments of our domestic agriculture and industry, undercut the wages of our working men and women, and totally destroyed or shipped abroad the jobs of hundreds of thousands of workers. This free trade policy is being used to foster socialism in America through welfare and subsidy programs."

While Libertarians believe along these lines (the title sums it up nicely)

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=5354