My Stance

[ProfSmith]

I expect that a majority of you will disagree with me when I say that I think gays have every single right to get married. I think this for the following reasons:

For one, you guys keep talking about how the church controls marriage, and how as long as the church says no, gays can't get married. Huh. That's funny, because I was under the impression that the STATES controlled marriage laws, not the church. If the church was the sole "owner" of marriage, how do you explain the fact that atheists, agnostics, and people of other religions can get married? Churches can refuse to marry individuals, this is true. They don't want to marry a gay couple, fine. I disagree, but it's fully within their right to reject to marry two people for any reason. BUT, gay people can always get married in courthouses if you guys get really offended if the homosexuals are desecrating your churches and your lives or whatever it is you think they're trying to do besides have a life together and not bother anybody else. Grow up, for God's sake. Mind your own damn business.

Gay people are not trying to take over the world, they are not trying to dirty up your children's minds (not that there's anything dirty about being gay, despite what you may think), they're not trying to have special privileges and they're not The Evil Spawn of Satan. They're just people, people like you and me, except they happen to like the same sex. They just want the same rights the rest of us have.

[ProfSmith]

I don't give a shit about the Bible, to be honest.

Animals cannot give consent. They cannot sign documents. Neither can corpses. Multiple wives/husbands, as long as all parties know about the situation and give consent, I see no problem with it, other than the fact that it's illegal here so far as I know and they'll have to move to the Middle East or something. As for incestous relationships, I have trouble believing that brothers and sisters can honestly actually be in love with each other, in a non-familial sense. As long as the proper precautions are taken so that no children are born and both parties are consenting adults, however, there TECHNICALLY isn't anything wrong with it. I'm not condoning incest, mind you.

Oh, and your quoting Scripture is suggesting that we kill gay people. How lovely. I think it also mentions in the Bible that we should kill all disobediant children and that we can't mix clothing fabrics or we shall be put to death. But hey, I'm not gonna get in a religious debate here.

[ProfSmith]

I do condone homosexuality, actually, because I really do not see what the big deal is. What people do in their own bedrooms is nobody's business, and I really could care less what gender people prefer.





Here is the problem with that arguement. Gay marriage is illegal here as well. If your going to ship the multiple marriage people to Saudi Arabia maybe you should save a few seats on the play for the gay marriage people as well



Okay, maybe that part of my argument was a bit stupid. Although I'm sure Saudi Arabia wouldn't let gays get married either, but that's not the point.



Not sure how you can comment on the level of love between a brother and sister.

I meant romantic love, I suppose. I'm not entirely sure of my whole stance on the incest thing right now, simply because I don't know that much about it. And my head hurts because I'm writing a term paper about the loss of innocence in The Catcher in the Rye and I've had to sift through a lot of research books. I hate term papers.

Anyway, I don't really have much else to say on this subject at the moment, so I shall draw this post to a close. G'day.

[Dagummit]

I do condone homosexuality, actually, because I really do not see what the big deal is.
Could it be that you, yourself, are gay/ lesbian/ whatever? Or someone close to you is?

I once saw a bumper sticker that said "Keep your laws off my body"...I assume that is referring to being pro-choice (something that I hate!)

but, how about this..."Keep you gay rights out of my face" I don't need to see it.

[Madcowhunter]

For one, you guys keep talking about how the church controls marriage, and how as long as the church says no, gays can't get married. Huh. That's funny, because I was under the impression that the STATES controlled marriage laws, not the church. Funny, I don't recall anyone on this site saying that church's control marriage.

[Devil_rules_in_extremes]

Funny, I don't recall anyone on this site saying that church's control marriage.

Marriage is an institution of the church. However if individual states make laws about marriage its in their right to do so. As long as the Federal Government doesn't stick its ugly face in the issue, Im good.

[Wadi66]

That's funny, because I was under the impression that the STATES controlled marriage laws, not the church.Would you take a few minutes out of your very busy schedule and provide a link to your State Constitution or the Federal Constitution where its written government has the authority (the jurisdiction) to dictate who gets married? You see, in all my years of study, I haven't found it. Maybe I just haven't looked hard enough.

[Devil_rules_in_extremes]

Would you take a few minutes out of your very busy schedule and provide a link to your State Constitution or the Federal Constitution where its written government has the authority (the jurisdiction) to dictate who gets married? You see, in all my years of study, I haven't found it. Maybe I just haven't looked hard enough.

Its apart of the Ohio constitution now.

http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/constitution.pdf

Article XV, section 11. (Page 62)

Because Gays where pushing their agenda hardcore here in Ohio, so the voters of this great state pushed back and totally banned gay marriage.

I agree with DAG. Don't push your homosexual agenda on me. You can participate in that kind of behavior all you want. But don't pervert a traditional institution thats been around since the beginning of time.

[Wadi66]

But DRIE, that's a violation of the US Constitution.

[Devil_rules_in_extremes]

But DRIE, that's a violation of the US Constitution.

Ooooooooo boy... I knew this was coming. Which part of the U.S. Constitution Wadi?

[Wadi66]

14th Amendment Section 1

Daughter wants the computer.... I gotta go..... dang and this was just gonna get interesting. Well, I'll continue with my end later... like tomorrow.

[The anti liberal]

ProfSmith, The big deal about homosexuality is that it goes against nature. It goes against the very essence of survival for the human race. Men cannot procreate with eachother and neither can women procreate with eachother.

[Oi_Ve]

ProfSmith, The big deal about homosexuality is that it goes against nature. It goes against the very essence of survival for the human race. Men cannot procreate with eachother and neither can women procreate with eachother.

War, for whatever reason, goes against the very essence of survival for the human race.

Therefore, we should never fight and just kowtow to tyrannts. That way the human race survives.

Survival is all that matters, regardless of how much oppression you must live under. As long as the government only kills a FEW people its alright.

For God's sake, people! 1% of the population not making babies is NOT going to bring about the exinction of the human race!

[Madcowhunter]

It goes against the very essence of survival for the human race. Men cannot procreate with eachother and neither can women procreate with eachother.
God knows I agree with you here. Homosexuality is vile, unnatural, and goes against the main purpose of all life (reproduction). But I am more so against allowing the government to control people’s lives or regulating marriage.

So you have to think for a minute and ask yourself. What is more important? Purging the power the government has over marriage, or preventing 1.51% of our population (gays, lesbians, and bisexuals) from getting married?

I would personally be more satisfied from crossing out all government authority over our marriage issues. Marriage (since its creation) has always been the joining of consenting human beings through religious ceremony. Why change that? What gives the government the right to marry people in a courtroom, or regulate who can or cannot get married? Shouldn’t this be up to a church to decide? Marriage rules and regulations should be based off the dogma of whatever church a couple decides to have host their marriage ceremony. If there is a church that allows the marriage of homosexuals, then let them marry homosexuals. While I don’t believe it is right, it doesn’t mean the government should have the power to regulate that decision.

[ProfSmith]

Okay, so barren women and men shouldn't get married either?

[Dagummit]

Okay, so barren women and men shouldn't get married either?
No, just gays (male and female)...what's so hard to understand about that?

[Jimbo]

You know WHY we should have a say in what other people do?

Because what they are doing is WRONG. Just like murdering a child is WRONG, gay acts are WRONG. People decide what is right and WRONG because that is what life is made up of. ones and zeroes. Right and Wrong. Didn't you ever see "Clear and Present Danger".

Ritter: "You see the world in black and white Jack"
Ryan: "No, not black and white, RIGHT AND WRONG"

Telling me that I shouldn't be able to decide whats right and wrong for someone else means that all laws are, in themselves, unfair because they decide what is right and wrong. Unfortunately these perverted people have decided that they are going to fight this tooth and nail because they want to be able to parade what they are doing.

[Madcowhunter]

But is homosexuality itself illegal? No. Gay people are allowed to date, and have intimate relationships. Therefore according to the law, homosexuality is not wrong. And since homosexuality is not wrong, the government has no place in dictating whether they can or cannot get married.

[qtizzle]

Didn't we just finish debating this stuff on another thresad?

[Oi_Ve]

Jimbo, homosexuality may be wrong, yes, but its not the government's job to enforce right or wrong. Right and wrong are far too ambigous terms for a government to run on.

Governments are derived from the right people to give up in order for protection of other rights. I give up my right to shoot you, and you me, and, in exchange, our right to live is protected.

But governments will, by their very nature, seek to gain more power by taking away your rights.

Therefore, there is no such thing as a moral government. All forms of government are immoral by definition, as they seek to enslave you and make themselves more powerful.

To try to have a moral government is futile and naive.

The job of a government is to protect your rights from being infringed (and in our case, fulfill the duties given to it by the Constitution)

Gays getting married or civil unioned or whatever is in no way an infringement of your rights.

[Wadi66]

You know WHY we should have a say in what other people do?

Because what they are doing is WRONG.Wrong according to whom? You and I may think its wrong, but we do not have the right to dictate our thoughts onto others. I believe it goes against the word of God, but not everyone believes in God. So who gets to decide? Are you being hurt? No. Am I? No. For gays and lesbians to go to a Church to be married is the ultimate hypocracy. They go into a House of the Lord to be married when His own words condemn their lifestyle. In the end though, they don't have to answer to me, they answer to Him. Their minister doesn't answer to me, he answers to God.
Just like murdering a child is WRONG, gay acts are WRONG.Murdering a child is wrong on many levels. To begin with the murderer is taking away someones elses right to life. Where the black and white you live by trumps everything else is if another persons life is being infringed while you're exercising one of your rights. The moment you infringe on someone elses right, your right ends. By the way, I hope you don't live your life by Hollywoods scripts.
Telling me that I shouldn't be able to decide whats right and wrong for someone else means that all laws are, in themselves, unfair because they decide what is right and wrong.Laws aren't there to decide who gets to dominate whom, who gets to push who around. Laws are SUPPOSE to preserve rights. NOTHING else.

[Dagummit]

I don't care what the lot of you think...going brokeback is wrong! Two guys shouldn't be playing "rear buccaneer"...

If I were in charge, I'd make it punishable by death. (okay, I am j/king on that one).

[Oi_Ve]

Ok Dag, fine. We agree. I don't think anyone save Prof. Smith was saying homosexuality was right.

But as Wadi and I just said, the law isn't there to dictate right or wrong. Its there to protect rights.

[The anti liberal]

Okay, so barren women and men shouldn't get married either?
This statement is laughable. They are still male and female and would have been able to reproduce.

[Jimbo]

Wrong according to whom? You and I may think its wrong, but we do not have the right to dictate our thoughts onto others. I believe it goes against the word of God, but not everyone believes in God. So who gets to decide? Are you being hurt? No. Am I? No. For gays and lesbians to go to a Church to be married is the ultimate hypocracy. They go into a House of the Lord to be married when His own words condemn their lifestyle. In the end though, they don't have to answer to me, they answer to Him. Their minister doesn't answer to me, he answers to God. Murdering a child is wrong on many levels. To begin with the murderer is taking away someones elses right to life. Where the black and white you live by trumps everything else is if another persons life is being infringed while you're exercising one of your rights. The moment you infringe on someone elses right, your right ends. By the way, I hope you don't live your life by Hollywoods scripts.Laws aren't there to decide who gets to dominate whom, who gets to push who around. Laws are SUPPOSE to preserve rights. NOTHING else.

Its not a hollywood quote, its a Jack Ryan quote. Jack Ryan is a character designed to have the utmost moral quality, which is why I quoted him.

And with the right and wrong thing, SOMEBODY has to decide. If we really live our lives based on the rule that "Don't tell other people how to live", then you are pretty much living in anarchy. I realize I'm not qualified to punish gays for their lifestyle, but if people can tell me I can't drink until I'm 21, then why can't I tell other people not to commit sex acts to members of the same sex?