My Stance

[Dr. Madd]

Mvillani:
Read it and weep.

http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/CULAMRCA/IRLEAGUE.HTM

The magna Carta was part of it, as was the Roman Senate and the Plebian Assembly, but the Iroquois Confederation's constitution was in fact a huge part of it. I've never cared for such Xenophobic clap-trap as the kind of stuff you see coming from Hitler's Germany.

[Dr. Madd]

Native practices and religions: The Nez Perce are named so because of nose piercings. The Flatheads and certain other tribes practiced head-binding to change the shape of the skull-(Also done by the celts and the Huns)
The Sioux worshipped the Great Spirit, the Cherokee converted, largely to Christianity. The Iroquois came up with Republican government independent of Europe and were strong enough to have representation in France and England. I'm sure there were perhaps some less than civilized aspects of their lives, but show me a culture that does not have something similar.

[MVillani1985]

Mvillani:
Read it and weep.

http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/CULAMRCA/IRLEAGUE.HTM

The magna Carta was part of it, as was the Roman Senate and the Plebian Assembly, but the Iroquois Confederation's constitution was in fact a huge part of it. I've never cared for such Xenophobic clap-trap as the kind of stuff you see coming from Hitler's Germany.

Why does this reek of Black History Month style propoganda?

Me? Xenophobic? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! How stupid to say that.

[MVillani1985]

Native practices and religions: The Nez Perce are named so because of nose piercings. The Flatheads and certain other tribes practiced head-binding to change the shape of the skull-(Also done by the celts and the Huns)
The Sioux worshipped the Great Spirit, the Cherokee converted, largely to Christianity. The Iroquois came up with Republican government independent of Europe and were strong enough to have representation in France and England. I'm sure there were perhaps some less than civilized aspects of their lives, but show me a culture that does not have something similar.

They attacked each other constantly, tribal wars. Some AmerInd cultures sacrificed their own to their gods. They rarely bathed, and the only clothes they had were the remains of old horse blankets they got from the settlers. I could give tons of examples of how they really were. Pretty much they were kind of how the Nordic Barbarians of the Roman days were.

PS: They did not come up with the Republican government, the Romans did. Ever hear about the Roman republic?

[Dr. Madd]

They attacked each other constantly, tribal wars. Some AmerInd cultures sacrificed their own to their gods. They rarely bathed, and the only clothes they had were the remains of old horse blankets they got from the settlers. I could give tons of examples of how they really were. Pretty much they were kind of how the Nordic Barbarians of the Roman days were.

PS: They did not come up with the Republican government, the Romans did. Ever hear about the Roman republic?

Xenophobic is the word, dude. You hate Jews to a person. That's xenophobic if I ever saw it.

Let us look at each point you attempt to make- before I kill it.

They attacked each other constantly- So England, France, Rome, Russia, Turkey, and All of Europe. The Germans were still at it in the 1930's.

Sacrificed to their Gods-The major sacrificial cults were in Mexico. But if you insist.. Ever hear of Tollund man? He was a Celt who was found in a bog, mummified. He was sacrificed to the gods, too. Ever hear of the wicker man? Sacrificial victims were tied into it, and burned alive. That was in Europe!
Human Sacrifice is part and parcell of all primitive cultures.

Rarely bathed- Check out the Hygiene of Europe at the same time.
Then come back to me- if you can.

Clothing- Moccasins, Parkas, leggings, kilts, vests, blouses and shirts, turbans(for the cherokee) Sashes. Need I say more?

Nordic Barbarians: On both sides of my family, I am descended from the Natives, and the "Nordic Barbarians" you speak of. You're not making friends with me, or anyone else with that kind of nonsense.:mad:

[Dr. Madd]

P.S. Look back at my original Post, Mvillani and quote it, in its ENTIRETY.

Note the word "Independently" Which means, "Free of outside influence" Yes, the Romans made the Republic, but the Iroquois came up with it, without ever meeting the Romans. That's my point.

[toddy rotton]

i read that whole thing! wow, now how did i miss it? i probably would have stopped reading it back when it first appeared after i read this:
I don't give a shit about the Bible, to be honest.

That about sums up the "why" question. (For me anyways).

then it seemed to take on a life of it's own... so thats how the "Phelps" thing started? I need to pay closer attention:icon_mrgr

[MVillani1985]

Xenophobic is the word, dude. You hate Jews to a person. That's xenophobic if I ever saw it.

Let us look at each point you attempt to make- before I kill it.

They attacked each other constantly- So England, France, Rome, Russia, Turkey, and All of Europe. The Germans were still at it in the 1930's.

Sacrificed to their Gods-The major sacrificial cults were in Mexico. But if you insist.. Ever hear of Tollund man? He was a Celt who was found in a bog, mummified. He was sacrificed to the gods, too. Ever hear of the wicker man? Sacrificial victims were tied into it, and burned alive. That was in Europe!
Human Sacrifice is part and parcell of all primitive cultures.

Rarely bathed- Check out the Hygiene of Europe at the same time.
Then come back to me- if you can.

Clothing- Moccasins, Parkas, leggings, kilts, vests, blouses and shirts, turbans(for the cherokee) Sashes. Need I say more?

Nordic Barbarians: On both sides of my family, I am descended from the Natives, and the "Nordic Barbarians" you speak of. You're not making friends with me, or anyone else with that kind of nonsense.:mad:

The difference is the European barbarism had ceased by 1600, but not the AmerInd barbarism. What I meant by barbarism is the fact that AmerInds would go into settlements (usually outnumbering the settlers 5 to 1) and kill off all the old men and take the women and children, something THEY attribute to US.

BTW, If you really wanna look at high civilization for its time, look at Rome or Greece or Persia or Byzantium or someplace like that.

Most accounts I've seen of the original AmerInds in the prairies (before about 1900) showed that they were dirty and their clothes are the remainders of old horse blankets.

I'm not much of a fan of Nordics (even though I do have Nordic blood) because well look at The Netherlands or Sweden.

[MVillani1985]

Also the reason I don't like jews is because of the degeneration and greed, the Talmudic behavior, I don't dislike ALL jews. Infact there are some I like, such as Rabbi Daniel Lapin, who speaks against the Talmudic culture.

[SubJunk]

I agree that it's not the government's place to dictate morals, but marriage is a religious act.
I think gays should be allowed to marry, who cares it's their business what they do and we have no right to restrict that, but if people want to be married there has to be a priest to marry them.
If the "leader" of their religious group (e.g. the Pope) says it's okay, I think the government should recognize this by accepting the marriage legally. But if the religious leader (not Jesus, the other guy :p) doesn't think it's okay, it's his right to make that decision because religion isn't a democracy.
So my views on this are very classic conservative, in fact a lot of my views on other things are too, in that I believe the government needs to take a step or two back and stick to it's purpose which is, as was said on this thread already, to manage rights, not morals.

By the way, hi, this is my first post and I'm very happy to be here. I'm a moderator over at scam.com and it's dominated (like so many political forums) by the left, and much of the right who are there are more like blind supporters than thinkers. I see we have thinkers here so this is very refreshing :D

[Dr. Madd]

The difference is the European barbarism had ceased by 1600, but not the AmerInd barbarism. What I meant by barbarism is the fact that AmerInds would go into settlements (usually outnumbering the settlers 5 to 1) and kill off all the old men and take the women and children, something THEY attribute to US.

BTW, If you really wanna look at high civilization for its time, look at Rome or Greece or Persia or Byzantium or someplace like that.

Most accounts I've seen of the original AmerInds in the prairies (before about 1900) showed that they were dirty and their clothes are the remainders of old horse blankets.

I'm not much of a fan of Nordics (even though I do have Nordic blood) because well look at The Netherlands or Sweden.

I'd be careful speaking ill of Nordics or Native Americans. I happen to have the blood of both. The Natives were actually about as advanced as the Russians of the same period, or the Mongols.

[Jimbo]

I don't think Gays should be allowed to marry simply because I absolutely despise that entire culture and also the effect its having on America. Just check the thread on pedophiles, these scumbags are coming out of the woodworks because of the gay marriage push.

[Wadi66]

By the way, hi, this is my first post and I'm very happy to be here. I'm a moderator over at scam.com and it's dominated (like so many political forums) by the left, and much of the right who are there are more like blind supporters than thinkers. I see we have thinkers here so this is very refreshing :DWelcome to TAR SubJunk. I hope you'll enjoy yourself here. Certainly a breathe of fresh air. BTW, how are the three stooges? :icon_wink

[SubJunk]

I don't think Gays should be allowed to marry simply because I absolutely despise that entire culture and also the effect its having on America. Just check the thread on pedophiles, these scumbags are coming out of the woodworks because of the gay marriage push.
Well sure, speaking in terms of percentages there is a higher rate of gay paedophilia than "straight" paedophilia, but there are still many more straight paedophiles out there when one considers the raw numbers.
African-Americans are having a much bigger and more negative affect on culture (gangs are cool, women are "hos", etc) so should we refuse their marriage privileges too?
I don't think we should, because most African-Americans don't think gangs are cool or that women are "hos", just like most gay people aren't paedophiles, and to discriminate against them as if they were would be unfair.

I don't like the whole gay thing either, I mean as a person I don't like it, but when I think rationally I realise that just because I don't like something doesn't give me the right to try to take away/not grant them common privileges.
If we want to fight the "gay culture", which I agree is coming on a little too strong (I don't want my kids to think it's "cool" to be gay. I don't want them to think it's a bad thing, but I don't want them to think it's better than being straight) we should be proactive as parents and citizens. There are other ways to "solve" things than with the law, and I think the last thing we need to be doing especially at this point in time (where the government already controls too much of our lives) is encourage even more governmental interference, we can solve our own problems, can't we?

The above was obviously a more broad response, not intended to be about gay marriage. Gay marriage to me isn't a legal issue at all, as Master Chief also said, it's a decision of the Vatican and being a semi-dictatorship (if we are to compare an institution to a government) it has no responsibility to cater for anyone it doesn't want to.
If the Vatican decides tomorrow that they don't want anyone who is not Arian to be a member of the Church I would disagree with it strongly morally but in actuality it is up to them who they let in the club :icon_smil

[SubJunk]

Welcome to TAR SubJunk. I hope you'll enjoy yourself here. Certainly a breathe of fresh air. BTW, how are the three stooges? :icon_wink
Thanks, I already am enjoying myself, we can explore things in very different ways here as opposed to scam I see, it's great :icon_smil

Well they're... Stooges! :icon_wink

[Madcowhunter]

So my views on this are very classic conservative, in fact a lot of my views on other things are too, in that I believe the government needs to take a step or two back and stick to it's purpose which is, as was said on this thread already, to manage rights, not morals.
You, welcome to the fold as well. I'm gald to see someone else share the same ideal on the issue as me.