Confederate flag

[Oi_Ve]

cause I promised the Last Straw guys I'd make the thread...here, talk about it all you want..discuss

[Dagummit]

It's just simply a beautiful flag to look at. Flowing gracefully in the wind...reminding the commie's of this gov't (dem's) that you can't cross the line when it comes to states rights! (Yes, I know Lincoln was a "republican", but there was a time when Lott and Thurmond were "democrats").

[Dagummit]

By the way, Traficant...

I find the real Traficant's speechs hilarious! He so many one-liners for the history books!

[Wadi66]

He sounds a little nuts but the man always hit the topic right on the nose.
We warned us about Clinton and Reno. He warned us against the radical muslims. He warned us about Cuba and making deals with Central America and Valenzuela. He warned us about China. People and Congress just wrote him off as a nut.Too bad Congress doesn't have 400+ more just like him.

[Madcowhunter]

In Response to jackhabbit's post:

Jackhabbit, rather than quote your entire post, I will just respond to it directly, and from the Confederate Flag thread. If I'm not mistaking, your last post responding to me stated the idea that most people view the flag as a symbol of biggotry. While it is ture, it does not backup your insult on Daggumit. And while people speak ill of the flag, I will always educate them on the truth, no matter how many people agree with them.

On what you said the swastika, I had already known of it's true origins. Adolf Hitler stole the swastika and turned into something evil, but I don't necassarily agree with how this relates to the Confederate Flag. The main reason is because the Nazi swastika and the Hindu swastika are not exactly the same. The Nazi's took the swastika and changed it a little, the shape is different with many of the Indian swastikas, and so is the way it stands. The two swastikas are different, and have different meanings. It was changed from a religious symbol, when the Nazi's took it to symbolize a pure race. So, the Nazi swastika is a symbol of racism, therefore it cannot be compared to the Confederate Flag, as the Flag was never changed to represent racism.

[Madcowhunter]

"The Stars and Bars"? This sounds like a Hollywood Nightclub.

"Robert E. Lee's Headquarters Flag"!?!?!? For Gods sake! No wonder they lost the war! YOu might as well put a bullseye on your generals forehead and stick him up a tree! His own flag would have been sayin somethin ot the artillery boys...somethin like "HERES LEE! PUT A SHELL UP HIS ASS!!!

Just some observations. :icon_mrgr

Where did that come from? Robert E. Lee is known as the greatest general in American history. The Union actually wanted him to fight against the Confederacy, but he reamined loyal to Virginia.

[Dagummit]

Where did that come from? Robert E. Lee is known as the greatest general in American history. The Union actually wanted him to fight against the Confederacy, but he reamined loyal to Virginia.

Didn't the north run through 16 commanding generals? Although Lee was the commander of the Army of N. VA and was never really the commanding general of the South, he sort of has been put in that place over the years. But anyway, there was only 1 of him. Lincoln went through his guys like I go through toilet paper after mexican food, because none (until Grant) could beat him. I strongly feel one of the very reasons the South lost was due to Jackson being killed (accidently by one of his own men of all things). When Jackson died, Lee pretty much gave up inside. He lost his right hand (he actually said that).

[Dagummit]

Oh, btw...the flags in my avitar aren't the Stars and Bars. The S&B was the first flag of the Confederacy. The flag you see by my name was simply the battle flag and was never an offical flag of the confederacy. The reason the S&B was changed is that is so looked like the union flag in all the smoke of the battle fields so soldiers were shooting the wrong guys.

[Argonath]

clever stradagy.

On the swastika. . . It was tilted. nothing fancy, they took the swastika and turned it on a point (I'm not sure of this, but I think that they might have reversed the way the points pointed).

[Madcowhunter]

It doesn't matter how small the change was (on the swastika), they are two completely different things.

[Oi_Ve]

. The main reason is because the Nazi swastika and the Hindu swastika are not exactly the same. .

Just to save you some typing in the future, the Indian symbol is called a 'manji' (in Japanese at least) and I think its Buddhist. Not sure.
I was taught the symbol was a Greek cross, but with bent ends. not sure if anyone can confirm that, just getting it out there

[Madcowhunter]

The symbol is for many religions, mainly Hindu and Buddhist. And I do recall hearing it was based off the Greek Cross.

[SealabFan77]

The Swastika is truelly something that is a beautiful thing. It means peace, prosperity, and well being. The Nazi's, trying to create a "perfect civilization" used this symbol to make the Riech look a lot more pure than it appears.

One more thing: anyone that compares anything to the Nazis, Adolf Hitler, The Third Riech, or the Jewish Holocaust that isn't almost EXACTLY alike that to the point where the actions involved would catagorize it as "Naziish", then you are mentally incompotent and you lack proper brain cells recquired to make these comparisons in an intellegent and well organized fashion. So, in a nut-shell, THE NAZI THING IS OLD, GET ANOTHER GOOD DIS YOU UNORIGINAL DUMBASS!

Thank you :biggrin:

[FKLBRLS]

I always have a feeling of loathing for people who say the Confederate Battle Flag is a "racist" symbol and was flown by the KKK and South alike. The South, by the way, according to liberal northeasterners, only went to war so it could continue to enslave black people. Here are some major pointers on the Confederate Battle Flag:

It WAS NOT the official flag of the confederacy. It WAS NOT flown at any of the Confederacy’s government buildings. It was a flag flown whenever the Confederate Army fought a battle. It was flown by black men as well as white. How can that be, asks the liberal? Well, most of the men who fought in the Confederate Army were NOT rich white plantation owners, but rather poor farmers who had few, if any, slaves. Slaves fought right alongside free men, not to protect slavery, as the left would have you believe, but to fight for their region.

The funny thing about the Battle Flag is that it was taken off the Georgia state flag in 2000-2001. People complained that the Battle Flag “signified racism” and so it was replaced by a bluish flag. By 2005, the Georgia state flag had been changed again, so that it looks like the ACTUAL OFFICIAL FLAG OF THE CONFEDERACY. Apparently, nobody cared about the flag that did fly “in support” of keeping slavery legal. I am not saying that the Official Confederate Flag stands for racism, what I am saying is that it stood for the government of a “country” that wanted to keep slavery legal. But the Battle Flag had nothing to do with racism, slavery, or the government of the Confederacy. The people in Georgia all cared about the flag that had nothing to do with slavery at all.

General Robert E. Lee opposed slavery and freed his slaves. The reason he went and fought for the South is because #1: he lived in Virginia and thought that Virginia had the right to be wrong and #2: his wife and his wife’s family were supportive of the South and he didn’t want to dishonor her.

The Confederate Battle Flag is NOT a symbol of racism, it is a symbol of military valor. Like I said before, black men fought for the Confederates along with the white men. These black men certainly didn’t fight to keep slavery. They fought for their region, and for their Southern brothers. On a grand scale, the war was somewhat about slavery. Although this is sort of a false statement: The civil war was not directly about the South wanting slavery, it was about the South not liking the anti-slavery president. They felt their region was being screwed, for they knew that abolition of slavery, if it happened suddenly, could destroy the South’s economy, as they could not have very many actual manufacturing facilities. So, they decided to secede. They said, “We don’t wish to be part of the United States of America any more, we want to leave and become our own country.” And secede they did. Abe Lincoln wanted to keep the US together, so he went to war to crush a rebellion. The war escalated and became a civil war. Eventually the South surrendered, but not without a good fight. The best part about it was, both sides forgave each other and walked away as friends. None of the Confederate leaders was tried for treason. Abe Lincoln helped rebuild the South and it’s economy, which now could no longer include slavery. Robert E. Lee would not allow his students to say anything bad about General Grant. After Lee signed the surrender papers, Grant ordered his men to give up half their food to the Confederate troops. When Lincoln announced the South’s defeat, he had the band play “Dixie”. It was a war fought between gentlemen.

[All American Kid]

carrying over from the last straw thread,

madcowhunter is right, the importation of slaves was banned January 1, 1808

[shotdrops286]

a symbol, in my opinion, is only as bad as the context its put in.

[Count Rugen]

[QUOTE=FKLBRLS]It was flown by black men as well as white. How can that be, asks the liberal? Well, most of the men who fought in the Confederate Army were NOT rich white plantation owners, but rather poor farmers who had few, if any, slaves. Slaves fought right alongside free men, not to protect slavery, as the left would have you believe, but to fight for their region.
[QUOTE]
Slaves were not allowed to enlist until March of 1865. By the time they were trained and ready to go the war was over. There were many free blacks that fought in the Civil War, mostly from Tennessee and Louisiana, but a slave wasn't allowed to fight, only to cook, play music and attend the injured.

On the topic of the Confederate Flag, it's the flag flown by a group whose intention was to tear this country apart. Why would you support that?

[Wadi66]

On the topic of the Confederate Flag, it's the flag flown by a group whose intention was to tear this country apart. Why would you support that?Maybe because the Constitution was a contract between the different States that was being violated by the North. Just as citizens can seek redress when their rights are being violated, the States, after failed attempts to seek redress, opted for the only avenue left open to them.

[Yankee Doodle]

The Confederate Flag now stands as a divisive symbol. Under the quarantine of our nation's history, as preserved by museums and public places, it is always important to never forget the trials and tribulations that brought our great country to be.

But the Confederate Flag should not be used as a symbol of social and political indifference.

It reminds me of a friend of mine from Memphis who went to Dallas for business and was ambushed one night after some drinks with colleagues by a bunch of stupid rednecks in a pick-up truck flying TWO Confederate flags! They actually fired their guns in their general direction, yelled some unsavory things, and then sped off.

Nah, that flag has got a bad vibe now. Used by bad people with bad ideas.

[Yankee Doodle]

And by the way . . .

The South will NEVER rise again.

[Oi_Ve]

On the topic of the Confederate Flag, it's the flag flown by a group whose intention was to tear this country apart. Why would you support that?

I think what you meant to say was:

Had legally seceeded from a government which it found incapable of doing its job. Therefore, they could not tear America apart or attempt to. Remember who invaded who; it was the United States which declared war and launched the first attack.
The troops of Fort Sumter were there illegaly, as was Fort Sumter. They were granted ample time to vacate the fort and return home; they did not comply. Kinda like when people tell you to get out of the path of a hurricane.
A civil war is one in which multiple factions within a country right amongst themselves for control of the government. This was not the case; it was a legitimate, international war

[Dagummit]

On the topic of the Confederate Flag, it's the flag flown by a group whose intention was to tear this country apart. Why would you support that?

It was flown by a group of people who believed in what the founding fathers intended the country to be and the documents that protect that belief (the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence) gave that group of people the power to exercise that right.

"Whenever any form of government becomes destructive, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government," said Thomas Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence.

According to the tenth amendment to the Constitution, anything that is not expressly prohibited by the Constitution is allowed. Therefore, all states have a Constitutional right to secede.

(Some of the above facts were found on http://info.interactivist.net/article.pl?sid=04/12/14/2017247&mode=nested&tid=8)

[Dagummit]

And by the way . . .

The South will NEVER rise again.

You sir have issues. You may think the flag is divisive, but I, along with hundreds of thousands of others, don't think so. It is the anti-flag peoples of this country along with KKK jackass's that have made the flag into what you think it means. I will never surrender the right to fly it and will never bow to ignorant bafoons such as yourself that see it as a symbol of hate. You and others like you have made it into a symbol of hate by fueling the klans fire. May I remind you that the klan and other idiot racist groups fly the American flag also. When will you start associating Old Glory as a divisive symbol?

Learn the history of the flag and educate yourself on the history of the South before you go around inserting your foot in your mouth!

[Oi_Ve]

Thomas Hobbes Leviathan and John Locke's Social Contract.
You dont even need a right in order to seceed. One of those natural rights that are born with the creation of government

[Count Rugen]

I think what you meant to say was:

Had legally seceeded from a government which it found incapable of doing its job. Therefore, they could not tear America apart or attempt to. Remember who invaded who; it was the United States which declared war and launched the first attack.
The troops of Fort Sumter were there illegaly, as was Fort Sumter. They were granted ample time to vacate the fort and return home; they did not comply. Kinda like when people tell you to get out of the path of a hurricane.
A civil war is one in which multiple factions within a country right amongst themselves for control of the government. This was not the case; it was a legitimate, international war
Naw, I pretty much meant what I wrote. If I want you to put words in my mouth I'll give them to you.