Now it's our fault...

[rightwingxtremist]

Greetings,

Earlier today I caught a story on yahoo, concerning a un envoy accusing the US of hurting the cause for aids reduction in Uganda.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050829/wl_nm/aids_africa_dc

All I have to say is this: STOP SCREWING!

I also don't believe that a penny of our government money should be spent on such things. Such is not our government's reason for being.

- Nate

[Oi_Ve]

I agree that the government shouldn't be doing this, but if you're going to do it, at least do it right. many of these people are poor and hold long held traditions and beliefs that arent going to just disappear because the UN worker says not to. it's really easy to say 'dont screw', but lets face it, these people are human, they are going to screw. tell them that the best way is abstenence, but tell them that if they are oing to do it, use a condom.
is it the US's fault though? no. even if it was, the nobody has any right to bitch cause they refused to use DDT to prevent malaria spreading in Africa, even when enviromentalists said that the amount that would have been used wouldn't harm the enviroment

[rightwingxtremist]

There has to be some serious cultural problem if people insist on screwing under the threat of a painful death. Enabling more sex through condoms is BS, not to mention that condoms are not 100% effective against AIDS anyway. If the condoms all break, then it's our fault for not buying them heavy duty condoms.

Individual responsibility is key. What, do the UN libbies believe that these Africans are too stupid to protect themselves? It sure does sound like it.

- Nate

[Bumblebee]

Maybe the "garbage bags" they've been using for condoms are more effective? :icon_mrgr

[Argonath]

I think he might have been refering to the "meager" funds that Bush gave Blair for the help Africa thing. It could have been more, mabye, but we give what we give.

[Bumblebee]

I just couldn't help myself by writing what I did. I never heard of such a thing.

As for the rest of the article, it's always blame Bush. I think it's ridiculous how they blame him for everything. I sort of just tune it out and prefer not to even talk about it anymore.

[Argonath]

Cheny gets a mean look, and no one attacks him. He gets that sneer. you know what i'm talking about!

[rightwingxtremist]

I think he might have been refering to the "meager" funds that Bush gave Blair for the help Africa thing. It could have been more, mabye, but we give what we give.

Nope, he makes specific references to the "Right Christian" abstinence policies of the U.S. - and that's a bad thing? He talks as if that's some sort of black mark, like we don't come up with good policies...

I'm telling you...

- Nate

[Oi_Ve]

you have to take into consideration the fact that there is little infastructure in the countinent, as well as tribal disputes which date back thousands of years (tutsi and hutu....not sure about the spelling). developing a country isn't easy (iraq), let alone a whole shit load of them. and yes, there are economies in africa. nigeria is one of our big oil suppliers. south africa had more economic growth than italy last year. kenya is getting better. toruism is up in parts of africa, conservation is working (now they raise elephants in captivity and remove the ivory in a non lethal way and sell it). It has soem the largest gold, diamond, and other reseves. It's resource rich, species rich, its worth working for.
Also, if you're poor, surrounded by AIDS, malaria, scarlet, live on a continent where everything from the flies to the friggin 19 foot nile croc on the other bank wants to kill you, lost your parents/children/family and have no medicine, alchol or drugs then about the only escape you could find would be sex. they're human, they're gonna screw.

[Avid_Liberal_Hater]

I agree that the government shouldn't be doing this, but if you're going to do it, at least do it right. many of these people are poor and hold long held traditions and beliefs that arent going to just disappear because the UN worker says not to. it's really easy to say 'dont screw', but lets face it, these people are human, they are going to screw. tell them that the best way is abstenence, but tell them that if they are oing to do it, use a condom.
is it the US's fault though? no. even if it was, the nobody has any right to bitch cause they refused to use DDT to prevent malaria spreading in Africa, even when enviromentalists said that the amount that would have been used wouldn't harm the enviroment

Oi Ve, you're right, humans are going to screw. But it needs to be stressed that "let's face it", there ARE going to be consequences. I'm glad you see that the AIDS epidimic is in Africa is not our fault. If it's anybody's "fault" ( I hate using that word to describe things on such a large scale), it's the fault of the cultures that these people live in.

Master Chief: I agree, Africa is the armpit of the world. I don't even know why we call it aid any more. Let's call it what it is: guilt reducer.

[Argonath]

If it's the armpit of the world, aomeone's gatta supply the deoderant. :icon_mrgr

[Oi_Ve]

we help it cause we think that someday we can money off of it. think about that, millions upon millions of new consumers. all of them wanting a cell phone. am I the only one who see's a tribesman in the sarengetti saying 'where you at?'?
seriously though, depending on what economist you talk to, africa is either the largest or second largest untapped market on earth (the first being china). it has potential, but it's VERY hard to get to it. kind of like a walmut, or a can of soup if you dont have a cracker or a opener. maybe an oyster. oyster's are hard to get into, and what's inside doesnt look very appetizing, but it's actually very good (if you're one of the few people who think an oyster looks tasty.......well......god help you, but I apologize). It isnt the role of the federal government of the US however.

[Peace_by_superior _power]

All i can say is girls keep your legs crossed and boys your fly zipped. I bet if their was abstinance that the aids would go down from 6% to 0

[Argonath]

What about married couples? Couldn't they get AIDS, to?

[Peace_by_superior _power]

Not if they were both practicing monogamy.

[Argonath]

um. . . I'm a virgin. so. . . um. . . what's monogamy?

[FightinDaMan]

Actually it doesn't really have anything to do with marriage. It just means being in only one love/sexual relationship at any given time. In both the human world and the animal world there is permanent monogamy: one sexual partner for life, and seasonal monogamy: one sexual partner for a set period of time (breeding seasons for animals, other time periods for humans).

[Oi_Ve]

And I'm afraid that monogamy is practiced in many African tribes. The problem though? These African tribes also have tribal beliefs on how to cure disease, which involves the exchange of blood, sexual intercourse with virgins, etc.

[Peace_by_superior _power]

THis has nothing to do with monagomy at all anyways...its all about abstinance. I go to a catholic school and in my geograpy class when we studied africa and the aids "epidemic" you see the real problem is not lack of knowledge or women being oprressed its that the people are lazy and dont care(the movie was made by lib ted turrner). they hand out condoms and other b/c instead of showing what coulld happen . schools (mainly the muslim ones) shows that women are inferior to men and should be treated like so. Its about being responsible. the u.s is doing what it can to stop this and if we are using OUR money then WE should decide how to spend it...if they dont listen then its not our problem... i personaly think (its inhumane but they brought it on themselves) that we should let them die (not suffer from a horrible diesese or have incredible pain, but rather live out the remainder of their lives as horrible as they are) or castrate

[Argonath]

what movie?

[Peace_by_superior _power]

I dont remember the title it was 1st quater of last year, but it was a 3 part movie, with one section on aids, one section on a family of four in cali (the best part is they bashed the family several times because their father worked hard and something to show for it and blamed them for the rest of the worlds problems because they earned the luxuries they have) and one section on the rainforest or the biodome i can remember.

[Mr. Glass]

I also don't believe that a penny of our government money should be spent on such things. Such is not our government's reason for being.

Couldn't put it better myself Nate. See, we can agree :)

I'm getting to a point now where I look at how much of our tax dollars are going into foreign aid vs. what we put into our schools, our health, and our emergency response structure, and I'm getting an uneasy feeling.

We can't deny that we're part of a global community, especially when it comes to our economy... but we can set some standards and goals and if all these countries that are asking for all-or-nothing can't play by those rules when we apply them, then nothing it is.

Sadly, western history being what it is, Europeon colonization, the slave trade, and later western exploitations of Africa have shaped that continnent into what it is today, but there';s nothing we can really do to un-do all that.... we have 2 choices... keep playing politics w/ regional dictators and pumping money in through all kinds of corrupted channels, thereby stagnating the situation, if not making it worse... OR... we can pull out, take back everything western culture has built up there over the last 100 years or so, and let them back to their ways for 150 years or so, 'till a few generations have cycled through, and see what the natural result is. We'd have to enforce strict sanctions, and asure that no other nations interfere (at untold costs to everyone, of course) .

There's the third option.... we just pull out and let the world figure it out. It might piss a few people off... but what are they gonna do about it? If they ask for help we say we tried, if someone comes up with a really good plan that we can justify to the taxpayers, we consider it.... but no more promises without expectations, no more politics....

-Doug