Intelligent Design

[God v2.0]

Should intelligent design be taught in all schools?





:icon_excl Watch for Falling Common Sense :icon_excl

[Mr. Glass]

Yes, but not in a sience class. Intelligent Design, Creation, and other popular views of our origen should be taught in social studies class... but what we really need is total educational reform to incorporate in a rational and educational way the views of all groups (well, all mainstream groups) equally....

-Doug

[teens4bush]

I agree with Mr. Glass on this one. If it is not accepted by the scientific community, it should not be taught in science. If you want to teach it in social studies however, I see no amendment 1 issues.

[Dagummit]

Evolution is about the most conning act in US educational history. Creation should be taught and compared to that of evoultion. If a parent doesn't want they kid to learn about creation, then I guess they have thay parental right. BUT the Lord will deal with them when the time comes.

I as a parent don't want my kids being taught evolution as a premise to where humans originated. But the liberal left have dupped the courts into thinking there ideologies are more correct than that of the truth (creation).

[FKLBRLS]

Yes I think that Science should be allowed to teach evolution and Social Studies intelligent design. That way, students can compare the two and prove for themselves that intelligent design is right.

[God v2.0]

Keep intelligent design out of the sciences. In a theology or comparative religions class, (which is social science) it as well as creation should be allowed in. But keep theology out of science.

[Wadi66]

If it is not accepted by the scientific community, it should not be taught in science.Science accepts and teaches many theories. It doesn't have to be a theological question unless you make it one. It can simply be used to question the validity of evolution which falls short of provability. Are you afraid kids might not agree with evolution? Are you trying to channel their thinking?

[Douglas Adams]

Intelligent design has just as much backing as evolution, if not more. There are no laws saying that creation cannot be taught in schools. I think the lies (evolution) need to be taken out of the textbooks. It is interesting how the ACLU has made it look like religion verse science, but in all actuality thats not the case. It's religion against evolution, which, no matter what some say, is also a religion. Science supports the creation theory in almost every aspect, and the creation theory is never proven wrong by any sciences, unlike evolution. For those who think only evolution should be taught in schools, and prayer taken out, look at the following stats...

Since evolution was put in schools and prayer taken out...

Sexually Transmitted Disease Gonorrhea in ages 15-19 - up 226%

Violent Crime Offenses- up 995%

Unwed Birthrates- up 325%

Prenancies to Girls 10-14- up 553%

Divorce rates- up 111%

Unmarried Couples- up 536%

Child Abuse- UP 2300%

Illegal Drug Use- UP 6000%


These stats are as of 1992, and things have only gotten worse. You tell the kids they're animals, and they will act like animals. Evolution should be taken out of the schools completely.

[Mr. Glass]

DA... where did you find those statisitcs? link please?

I don't think you can link every social ill to the absence or exsistance of a single facet of modern society as you're doing (unintentionally, I think).

As for wearing your faith on your sleeve, I have no problem with that, I respect and honor pride in your faith.... but don't try to impose sanctions against viuews you don't agree with. I agree that it's unfair to deny teaching Creation in school, but I don't think that we should stop teaching evolution in favor of creation because then you're denying the rights of millions of people who do not beilieve in creation.

I also agree that science is a matter of faith, but it's more than religion, it's also Science. They're always diametriclly opposed. Scienbce is faith in the pysical world that we can see, touch, and feel. Religion is faith in spirituality, mysticism, and intangible matters of the mind, heart, and soul... which if you're a strong person are matters beyond doubt as strong as physicall proof.

I'll let you tell your children only of Creation as real and never interfere with that, and I'll tell my children about Evolution, creationism, intelligent design, and as many other cultureal and religious explainations of where we come from as I can dig up and let that person decide for themselves through a life of contemplation of the "facts" that are provided, and I'll ask you not interfere.

If you really want to force schools to stop teaching scientificlly based evolution and instead teach the theocratic doctrine of creation then I would have to say you're treading dangerously close to the theocratic societies that domniate the Middle East.

I think the most American thing we could do is teach children all the mainstream accepted ideas of where we come from... basiclly Intel Design (a thin version of creation), creationism, evolution, and a smattering of nods towards other cultures ideas as well.

What classes to teach what idea in is still amatter of debate... but I would say in general evolution in science class, and creationism in a social studies class, or a global awareness class (which should exsist)

-Doug

[God v2.0]

what he said ^

[Douglas Adams]

I'm too lazy to list sources, but I will later when I've had a shower.

I would completely agree with you iof evolution had a scientific basis and was anything more then a religion, but it isn't. There is more scientific proof supporting creation, or intellegint design, than evolution by a long stretch. I think that the lies of evolution need to be taken out of the textbooks because I think one of the most inmoral things to do is teach childre non-truths that will affect their view on life and possibly even decrease the value of it.

All intelligent design is is not actually saying "God."

[FKLBRLS]

Very interesting stats, DA. Actually they sorta make sense. Teaching kids about evolution is taking them one step further away from the lord, even if they don't realize it. God didn't create us so then I guess he doesn't exist which means it doesn't matter if I become the world's youngest pimp. You are right, science does support the creation theory a lot. It really isn't science vs. religion, it is evolution vs. religion. You may have heard a couple months ago about how a certain school district realized this and put the following label on it's schools' biology books: "This book contains information on evolution. Evolution is a theory, NOT a fact." This had some athiest parents up in flames and they sued the school to take the labels off.

[Mr. Glass]

Creation and Intelligent DEsign are also THEORIES.

Before anyone takes as fact those numbers DA cited and passes them on, I'd wait for some sources and references. You worry about teaching non-truths.... this could very well be misinformed, mis-interpreted, or out-right wrong information. From an acedemic/professional/researcher point of view, any time you cite statistics like that you give the source. You obviously looked it up when you posted it, thats the best time to provide the link you used, or the title of the book, author, publisher, and date. ISBN numbers help a lot for books also.... or did you just "remember" these numbers?

If your source is another post on another blog/forum that doesn't offer citations then you've just fallen into a big nasty logic trap: hearsay.

Post those sources or don't post statistics. To protect not only your own integrity, but the integrity of this entire community.... unless no one cares about integrity.

*shrug*

-Doug

[Master_Phil]

Intelligent design has just as much backing as evolution, if not more. There are no laws saying that creation cannot be taught in schools. I think the lies (evolution) need to be taken out of the textbooks. It is interesting how the ACLU has made it look like religion verse science, but in all actuality thats not the case. It's religion against evolution, which, no matter what some say, is also a religion. Science supports the creation theory in almost every aspect, and the creation theory is never proven wrong by any sciences, unlike evolution. For those who think only evolution should be taught in schools, and prayer taken out, look at the following stats...

Since evolution was put in schools and prayer taken out...

Sexually Transmitted Disease Gonorrhea in ages 15-19 - up 226%

Violent Crime Offenses- up 995%

Unwed Birthrates- up 325%

Prenancies to Girls 10-14- up 553%

Divorce rates- up 111%

Unmarried Couples- up 536%

Child Abuse- UP 2300%

Illegal Drug Use- UP 6000%


These stats are as of 1992, and things have only gotten worse. You tell the kids they're animals, and they will act like animals. Evolution should be taken out of the schools completely.

I wouldn't doubt that. I completly agree with you that Evolution should be taken out of schools completely.

[Douglas Adams]

Sexually Transmitted Disease Gonorrhea in ages 15-19 - up 226%
Source: Center for Disease Control and Department of Human Resources

Violent Crime Offenses- up 995%
Source: Statistical Abstracts of the United States, and the Dept. of Commerce, Census Bureau

Unwed Birthrates- up 325%
Source: Dept. of Health and Human Resources and, Statistical Abstracts of the United States,

Prenancies to Girls 10-14- up 553%
Same as above.

Divorce rates- up 111%
Source: U.S. National Center for Health Statistics, Vital Satatistics of the United States.

Unmarried Couples- up 536%
Source: [I]Statistical Abstracts of the United States,[/I
Child Abuse- UP 2300%
Source: U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Resources and Child Maltreatment: Reports from the States to the National Child Abuse and Neglect Data system.

Illegal Drug Use- UP 6000%
Source: National Institute on Drug Abuse.

[Mr. Glass]

*sigh* I guess I can't expect you to actually know proper MLA style citation.... anyways C for effort...

To find the data you're refering to would take several days....you got a centralized site that lists this with links to the data on government sites and such?

-Doug

[rightwingxtremist]

Mr. Adams,

That is a GREAT signature!

- Nate

[Mr. Glass]

Since evolution was put in schools and prayer taken out...


Done in 1962-1963 in the case Engel vs. Vitale.



Sexually Transmitted Disease Gonorrhea in ages 15-19 - up 226%

I could not find a record that tracks Gonorrhea in any particular age range, just as a wholeof the populace. Please provide at the very least the publication number and title for refernce, the CDC is a VERY large organization.

What I did find was that in 1950 the rate of gonorrhea was 192.5 in 1000, or 19.25% of the population. In 1960 it was 145.40 per 1000, or 12.54%. By 1980 cases rose to 440.10 per 1000, meaning > 44% of the population was infected with gonorrhea. In recent years, with improvments in education and increased awareness of STDs the rate of infection has dropped to 125.03 per 1000, or 12.503% of the population, in 2002. The rate seems to be in steady decline.

Source: CDC. Health, United States, 2004. ( http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/hus04trend.pdf ) Table # 51.



Violent Crime Offenses- up 995%


Reported Violent Crimes:
1960: 288,000 per 180,671,000 (Occurance is 0.15%)
2004: 1,426,000 per 295,507,000 (Occurance is 0.48%)

When you factor in population growth the numbers dont really change 995%,
So yes there has been a dramatic increse in violent crimes, but no where is the number you mention cited that I could find. I'm not a statistician, so I can't do the proper math here, but my rough estimate is around 300% increase in violent crimes over 45 years, factoring in population growth.

Source:
Population Data: US Census Bureau ( http://www.census.gov/statab/hist/HS-01.pdf )
Crime Statistics: Statistical Abstract of the United States 1960; ( http://www.census.gov/statab/hist/HS-23.pdf )


and so on...and so on....

Anyways, just getting the data for these 2 statistics took me like 90 minutes. ... I'll let you prove the rest.... just listing the agency you think has this info isn't enough.... from the short amount of time I've spent digging I've come to suspect everything you've posted here as exagerated or falsified.

The burden of proof is on you, but I know a lot of people don't need proof, they just have to like what they hear and will parrot this info to other conservative sites, and eventually there will be even more disinformation out in the conservative sphere.... way to go!

-Doug

[Oi_Ve]

Intelligent design has just as much backing as evolution, if not more. There are no laws saying that creation cannot be taught in schools. I think the lies (evolution) need to be taken out of the textbooks. It is interesting how the ACLU has made it look like religion verse science, but in all actuality thats not the case. It's religion against evolution, which, no matter what some say, is also a religion. Science supports the creation theory in almost every aspect, and the creation theory is never proven wrong by any sciences, unlike evolution. For those who think only evolution should be taught in schools, and prayer taken out, look at the following stats...

Since evolution was put in schools and prayer taken out...

Sexually Transmitted Disease Gonorrhea in ages 15-19 - up 226%

Violent Crime Offenses- up 995%

Unwed Birthrates- up 325%

Prenancies to Girls 10-14- up 553%

Divorce rates- up 111%

Unmarried Couples- up 536%

Child Abuse- UP 2300%

Illegal Drug Use- UP 6000%


I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and say your stats are accurate. even if they are, since evolution was first taught in school, we've also had WWII, WWI (if you count scokes), vietnam, the cold war, increased levels of immigration and cultural mixing, population increases, urban development....I mean come on, you can't say that evolution caused those increases. It doesn't prove anything.
And evolution is not a religion. religion's are, according to webster, a belief system in a supernatural being or god. evolution is a theory of the origin and progress of life. it does not have a moral code. no religious doctrine or dogma.
I agree creation and intelligent design should be taught in school. in philosophy. creation has no proof. the only arguements creationists use are pointing out the flaws in evolution which evolutionists already admit exist. it isn't perfect, but it still has been proven to be true with every other family of animals. intelligent design states that progress on earth advanced too fast to be natural and that a supreme being had to assist it. that is an opinion. it has no proof
the point of education is to learn. when there is no answer that is 100% sure, you have to teach what is most likely the truth. in the case there is more than one conclusion like that, you teach them all and let the child decide. please note that noone has said creation should not be taught. the only one's calling for the elimination of something are creationists who are afraid that children will actually hold opinions contrary to theirs. Heaven forbid that children should be able to decide on what they believe.

[Argonath]

Both Would probably fit only in collage, seeing as they deal with a person's private views. You don't wanna force any perticular view on any kid, from K-12. If they want to see a lecture by Dr. So-and-so or a seminar with the reverand This-And-That during thier collage years is completly up to them.

[Oi_Ve]

Both Would probably fit only in collage, seeing as they deal with a person's private views. You don't wanna force any perticular view on any kid, from K-12. If they want to see a lecture by Dr. So-and-so or a seminar with the reverand This-And-That during thier collage years is completly up to them.

that's another alternative. good call. in fact, I agree

[Mr. Glass]

You have a very modern view of age Argo. 80-100 years ago you were a man at 16, with a job, a family to support, and maybe the benefit of an education. Even today we expect an 18 year old to have a good enough understanding of the world around them that they can participate in government.

I'm in favor of giving children 100% unrestricted access to any and all information (*edit: information that's also available, legally, to adults... I'm not talking about child porn and state secrets here) as they see fit, but with intentional guidance from teachers in important matters. Never lie to a child. There is not a single reason I have found for lieing to a child. On matters of religious and scientific theory, they should be offered with the appropriate caveats of what they are and how they work.

Also, I would challenge you to prove a correlation beyond conjecture between creation&prayer in school and major world wars. I'm open to the possibility, but extremely skeptical based on my own education and understanding of things. It seems that humans have been fighting wars over territory, resources, and religion since long before the concept of evolution was even offered up, let alone the American Education System as it is in the last 60 years.

Thing is, with religion, you're dealing with...religion..... you can't PROVE religion as a whole, it's a matter of faith. You can, however, prove that 1 + 1 = 2, to anyone who is capable of cognative thought, anyways. This is the basis of mathematics which is the basis of science.

At this point it comes down to the individual.... if you're of a faith that places itself above everything else regardless of logic and reason then you're not likely to change your views in the face of science and math, because those are lesser forms of thinking (human thinking), where as faith is a higher mode of consiousness (devine instruction, dogma, destiny, karma, fate, whatever) that is something other (more?) than true, it just "is" (hrm.... where have I heard that before?)

In the end, if your religion says 1+1=3 then no one will convince you that 1+1=2 unless you acecpt it.... nothing I can do about it..... but don't try to force 1+1=3 on me when I'm not trying to force you to accept that 1+1=2.... in the end you can either accept what your mind says or what your faith says.... and that's one of those things that defines us as human.

I say 1+1=3 only for very large values of 1, in a theoretical world where the tangible laws of physics do not apply.

Or you can argu that nothing is tangible unless you accept that is is... but then I'll start wondering what you're smoking and where I can get some.

Thing is, that's probably close to the truth.... maybe.....

For now, I'll expect $4 back from a $10 bill for a $6 tab, and accept that gravity, however it works, means that I cannot jump off a building and expect to fly.

Flying Spaghetti Monsterism is fine to know about but but it's not going to influence my reason and life.

*shrug*

Back to the TV..... I'm a media addict... I'm waiting to hear more about Natalie Holloway, but stupid Fox News is just showing more of this hurricane crap.

-Doug



(um, that was like sarcastic, if you couldnt tell, about that bimbo in aruba)

[Argonath]

Also, I would challenge you to prove a correlation beyond conjecture between creation&prayer in school and major world wars. I'm open to the possibility, but extremely skeptical based on my own education and understanding of things. It seems that humans have been fighting wars over territory, resources, and religion since long before the concept of evolution was even offered up, let alone the American Education System as it is in the last 60 years.

Um. . . Thanks for the copliment (?) but, I'm still a kid. Could you boil this down for me to something a bit more simple? Yah, I know, I should understand it, but there are a lot of big people words in there. . .

[God v2.0]

I'm too lazy to list sources, but I will later when I've had a shower.

I would completely agree with you iof evolution had a scientific basis and was anything more then a religion, but it isn't. There is more scientific proof supporting creation, or intellegint design, than evolution by a long stretch. I think that the lies of evolution need to be taken out of the textbooks because I think one of the most inmoral things to do is teach childre non-truths that will affect their view on life and possibly even decrease the value of it.

All intelligent design is is not actually saying "God."


Where is this infallible proof that completely backs up creation and blows evolution away. What non-truths? There is more truth to evolution than creation. Evolution is based on Observed, Recorded, and Reproduced facts. It is not a 2000 year old book that some people decided to use to oppress the peasents.

[Argonath]

Now THAT would be a premier show!