Flag in Toilet Pulled From Display

[Mr. Glass]

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Flag_in_toilet_painting_rem_0823.html

Happy now? hehehe

[Douglas Adams]

Good. Very good. That is treason. Does anyone know how the bill the make it illegal to deface an American Flag is going?

[Mr. Glass]

It's not treason, that's empty rhetoric.

It's offensive to you, and it's generally in poor taste, but it's not treason...

Did you ever make it past 6th grade social studies? Treason is a very heavy word to toss about.... I know you don't really care, but some people might... I respect someone who can take an educated stance towards this and say "I'm offended, I dont think this should be on public display, I'm going to do something about it" I don't respect people who get excited and start barking Treason and Seddition just because they disagree with someone. It's akin to calling conservatives fascists, bush a nazi, libs communists, and anti-war protesters unamerican... it's misguided at the least, hateful and wrong usually.

And life _IS_ all beer and Skittles.... SkittleBrau can sustain life for 80+ years. Homer Simpson should get a nobel prize for SkittleBrau... http://www.glossynews.com/artman/publish/skittlebrau.shtml

-Doug

[Douglas Adams]

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid or Comfort. No person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court. "

Would you say that defacing an American flag, the flag thousands have died to protect, and therefor helping the anti-American cause growing within the U.S., and harming it mind you, would be "giving them Aid or Comfort?" I do. The same way Clinton commited treason dropping his pants in the oval office.
The Flag is something sacred. Too bad people in this nation have forgot that.

[Android]

"
The Flag is something sacred. Too bad people in this nation have forgot that.
Yes it is, very sacred. But unfortunately they can do what ever to it they want. I understand the value of it and had to bit my hand in order not to kick the teeth out of a little a hole here doing it (burning).
I think what I would like to do is similar to a guy down the street. He planted a huge pole in HIS yard, pulled a flag up that was enormous and let it beat in the wind. most of his neighbors loved it, of coarse it "offended" others. The judge said he had to lower it when it was windy where it made too much noise but he never does.
The best part, when the freaks come buy bitching about it you call the cops on them for harassment. I guarantee they show up in minutes. They (whiners) like their rights but not other peoples rights, hmm... imagine that. They also know ALL their rights but understand very little about their RESPONSIBILITIES.
Pick and choose, pick and choose.

[God v2.0]

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid or Comfort. No person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court. "

Would you say that defacing an American flag, the flag thousands have died to protect, and therefor helping the anti-American cause growing within the U.S., and harming it mind you, would be "giving them Aid or Comfort?" I do. The same way Clinton commited treason dropping his pants in the oval office.
The Flag is something sacred. Too bad people in this nation have forgot that.


Anti-American cause? Yes theres a whole REVOLUTION going on in the streets. Oh God! People are speaking their mind, RUN TO THE BUNKERS! Prepare the nukes! RUN AWAY! THey have begun to think for themselves.

ANd the bill against flag burning wont pass because of a little case called Texas V. Johnson and a little guideline called stare decisis

Heres a link if you donmt believe me http://bessel.org/casejohn.htm

[LiberalsAreBabyKillers!]

The article called the painting "Controversial" Goddamn it I'm sick of that ====ing word, the word, It's too nice, the adjective that should be used in this case should be EVIL.

[Douglas Adams]

I totally support the people's right to express their opinions, and I love to live in a country where that can happen. But, I think the flag is something that goes above rights. It's just my opinion.

[LiberalsAreBabyKillers!]

Anti-American cause? Yes theres a whole REVOLUTION going on in the streets. Oh God! People are speaking their mind, RUN TO THE BUNKERS! Prepare the nukes! RUN AWAY! THey have begun to think for themselves.
What the hell are you trying to say by that?!?!?!?!? I don't remember you being a lib, but are you trying to say that people are just speaking their mind by burning the flag, and that we should critisize (spelling) it? If so ==== you. we are not being close minded by being offened by the selfish and evil desecration of the symbol of blood spilt for freedom, the blood that was spilt gave you the right to do that jackass!

[Douglas Adams]

What the hell are you trying to say by that?!?!?!?!? I don't remember you being a lib, but are you trying to say that people are just speaking their mind by burning the flag, and that we should critisize (spelling) it? If so ==== you. we are not being close minded by being offened by the selfish and evil desecration of the symbol of blood spilt for freedom, the blood that was spilt gave you the right to do that jackass!
That's what I felt....so thanks for saying it when I didn't.

[Mr. Glass]

You have every right to be offended by this, as does the "artist" to create it.

It's the same ammendment that lets you express your disgust that allows an individual to create offensive art.

You don't like it, THAT'S FINE.
You've said so, THATS also okay.
You even have the RIGHT to say you think it should be banned.


But... I would also point out that you have to choose your battles.... and the First Amendment Army is more than willing to fight for our rights to free speech.

I know that some of you don't understand the constitution and what it stands for, I know some of you think we still live under British rule and Colonial Law.... but we don't, we have our own independant nation with its own set of modern laws.... you should check them out some time.

-Doug

[Avid_Liberal_Hater]

You have every right to be offended by this, as does the "artist" to create it.

It's the same ammendment that lets you express your disgust that allows an individual to create offensive art.

You don't like it, THAT'S FINE.
You've said so, THATS also okay.
You even have the RIGHT to say you think it should be banned.


But... I would also point out that you have to choose your battles.... and the First Amendment Army is more than willing to fight for our rights to free speech.

I know that some of you don't understand the constitution and what it stands for, I know some of you think we still live under British rule and Colonial Law.... but we don't, we have our own independant nation with its own set of modern laws.... you should check them out some time.

-Doug

I wonder what the reaction would be from supporters of the painting if there were a painting in its place of a black man in caricature, made up to look like a complete buffoon. You know, the real good ones from the 1920's. First Amendment, right? People can paint whatever they want, right?

[Count Rugen]

Could you guys please make a list of what free speech is acceptable? It would help me in trying to be a true American. I THOUGHT that expressing yourself was limited only to things that cause others harm (and before you type it, don't use the "it's causing harm because I'ma gonna' whup him somethin' fierce" rhetoric, it's ignorant).

So, just list them here and I'll print them out and distribute them to ALL the people in the US. You see, there are more people here than just yourselves, and they hold dear to the ideals of freedom and liberty. ALL the ideals of freedom and liberty, not just the ones with which they agree. I know it's a very compicated issue requiring minutes of deep thought about the foundation of this country, but give it a try. Free speech means that you are free to speak in any way about whatever you want.

And, if I may predict a response, no, I am not trying to stifle your free speech. You have the right to complain about people that burn the flag, but you don't have the right to physically harm them or try and imprison them, though.

What kind of government puts people in jail for speaking out against the government? I think we had a whole thread on that somewhere, didn't we?

[Avid_Liberal_Hater]

What kind of government puts people in jail for speaking out against the government? I think we had a whole thread on that somewhere, didn't we?

THere are plenty that do. One more reason why America, despite liberal arguments to the contrary, is on of the greatest nations in existence.

[Douglas Adams]

Are you serous? Did you even read my post, or LABK's post? Can you read at all? I didn't mention once about stifiling their first admendment rights. Not once. Listen to this one more time for you act like your better then you are, I ONLY THINK THAT THE FLAG IS SOMETHING THAT IS TO BE HELD ABOVE THE NORMAL LAW! Now, that might have been a little too hard to comprehend...but just really try and it will come.



I know that some of you don't understand the constitution and what it stands for, I know some of you think we still live under British rule and Colonial Law.... but we don't, we have our own independant nation with its own set of modern laws.... you should check them out some time.


I totally support the people's right to express their opinions, and I love to live in a country where that can happen.

Think about what you write before you write it. It will really help you in life.

[Wadi66]

Free speech means that you are free to speak in any way about whatever you want.Count I think this is where you end up getting in a tussle with others on the forum. It seems your attitude is that "free speech" is unlimited. Others don't agree. Setting aside the fact that the courts have ruled you can't yell fire in a theater, most people don't feel "free speech" should be limitless, they feel there has to be limitations. Its one thing to complain about the government, its quite another to partake of the benefits then turn around and defile our national emblem. That's taking the whole "free speech" too far. Our individual sense of right and wrong tells us a no holds barred approach causes problems in the end. Something liberals simply don't comprehend.

[Douglas Adams]

tell you what.....leave the picture up when you leave the ten commandments up.

[Count Rugen]

Count I think this is where you end up getting in a tussle with others on the forum. It seems your attitude is that "free speech" is unlimited. Others don't agree. Setting aside the fact that the courts have ruled you can't yell fire in a theater, most people don't feel "free speech" should be limitless, they feel there has to be limitations. Its one thing to complain about the government, its quite another to partake of the benefits then turn around and defile our national emblem. That's taking the whole "free speech" too far. Our individual sense of right and wrong tells us a no holds barred approach causes problems in the end. Something liberals simply don't comprehend.
I comprehend it perfectly, Wadi. What many of the anti-speech crowd don't understand is the irony in yelling at those who burn a flag in protest because it represents those that died defending your freedom to burn the flag. I would think that by protesting the government you would be honoring the sacrifice those soldiers made. A sacrifice, by the way, that hasn't actually been made since the forties, as no soldier has died "defending" this country since the end of WWII (flame on).

[Wadi66]

Count you're so full of it your eyes are brown. The "anti-free speech" crowd as you like to label them are more patriotic than the "commie" Americans pushing the right to burn the flag agenda. Too bad you weren't around when it first became an issue, you wouldn't be so gullible now.

[Douglas Adams]

"defending" this country since the end of WWII (flame on).
Do you support the Iraqi war? THEY BROUGHT THE WAR TO US ON SEPTEMBER 11TH! The soldiers are dying to neutralize the force that seeks to bring America harm. What is wrong with you?


Once again, cuz apparently you need things to be told to you many times, I'm not stopping anyone's free speech. ONly the flag is held sacred, above free speech laws, above any law for that matter. Read it through a few times, I'm tired of saying it.

I think it's illegal to burn a flag in protest. I'm not sure though.

[Count Rugen]

Wadi, I wouldn't accuse people of being gullible if I were you. You may want to check the mote in your own eye first.

Was there information available at the beginning of the "flag-burning" debate that has mysteriously dissapeared (of course there is, Jimmy Carter hid it in his secret One World Government room)? I think I would be more concerned with what's going on now in the debate. But, your tactic did work. It's true that I am but 31 years of age and have never worked for people secretly plotting the demise of the world. You got me there. I shoulda' seen that one coming, but I was too naive.

Master Chief, you don't get to pick and choose what's allowed speech and what isn't. As I've said before, I fly a flag in front of my house every day. I don't agree with using the flag as a tool of protest as I have a great deal of respect for the flag. Thank God one person doesn't get to decide what does and doesn't get to be used in the area of speech, or else this would be some other form of government. Speech is speech, and until it harms another person, I'll defend to the death your right to speak. It would be a better world if others agreed.

[Wadi66]

Wadi, I wouldn't accuse people of being gullible if I were you. You may want to check the mote in your own eye first.

Was there information available at the beginning of the "flag-burning" debate that has mysteriously dissapeared (of course there is, Jimmy Carter hid it in his secret One World Government room)?I think I would be more concerned with what's going on now in the debate. But, your tactic did work. It's true that I am but 31 years of age and have never worked for people secretly plotting the demise of the world. You got me there. I shoulda' seen that one coming, but I was too naive.If I appear gullible to you Count its because you are soooooo uniformed. It isn't often I converse with someone as unashamedly deficient in knowledge. Yeah you're a 31 yr old snot nosed know it all who sanctimoniously looks down his nose at everyone who doesn't subscribe to his illiterate views. Geez louise my 18 yr old has more wisdom than you do. And Count, I never worked FOR people secretly plotting the demise of the world. What are reading comic books? As for what is going on in the debate today, what, is it new?? Perhaps it is to you, you're more concerned about being fashionable and progressive than being responsible and mature. Maybe after you've grown up you'll get some smarts. For now though, I consider you ignorant. College educated but still ignorant. And all the more a fool.

[Douglas Adams]

I find it ironic that the people who are burning the flag are doing it under the freedom that the military and this nation gave them. People who burn the flag are commiting treason. Yes Count, as things need to be explained to you many times, treason.

[Count Rugen]

Am I "sooooo" uninformed? It amazes me how someone so ancient in the ways of the world quickly turns into a fifteen year-old. Maybe that's what you really are, Wadi. Or, maybe you don't know better how to express yourself.

It was a nice attack, though. But, I didn't get this part:

everyone who doesn't subscribe to his illiterate views.
You could've just said ignorant views and it would've made sense. Illiterate, though? Is it that I can't read, of I choose not to? Well, the answer is neither, but I can't change your mind about that.


As for what is going on in the debate today, what, is it new?? P
Of course it's not new, but, because I wasn't around in the early days of the debate you seemed to think my views were invalid as evidenced here:

Too bad you weren't around when it first became an issue, you wouldn't be so gullible now. So, I wondered aloud if there was some hidden information form the early days that was quickly rounded up by the men in the black helicopters and secured in the One World Government lair at the United Nations, that's all. Gosh, talk about getting bent out of shape.

perhaps it is to you, you're more concerned about being fashionable and progressive than being responsible and mature.
Am I really concerned with being fashionable? Do I fly a flag in front of my house every day? Is that what the "academic elite" you fear so much are doing these days? I pray every day for the fighting men and women of this country. I pray for their safety and I pray for their safe return. Not so I'll be proven right in some idiotic debate, but because I want them to come home to their families. I don't want another child to lose his mother or father. Am I so fashionable, Wadi? Am I for abortion on demand, as is so fashionable with the Hollywood crowd? Am I against gun ownership? Am I against TAX CUTS? Absolutely not. But, you pidgeon-hole me as some whacko liberal so you can continue to fantasize about that secret enemey you've constucted in your wordless insanity. The truth is, rather than subscribing to a pre-determined set of beliefs, handed down to me by my high grand priest of the cheese cloth, I simply differentiate right from wrong using the fairly substantial intellect God gave me (the "fairly substantial" part was just to give you a little more ammo, as you're clearly running out).

[Count Rugen]

I find it ironic that the people who are burning the flag are doing it under the freedom that the military and this nation gave them. People who burn the flag are commiting treason. Yes Count, as things need to be explained to you many times, treason.

Here's my answer from a long time ago. Talk about having to hear things over and over again:

What many of the anti-speech crowd don't understand is the irony in yelling at those who burn a flag in protest because it represents those that died defending your freedom to burn the flag. I would think that by protesting the government you would be honoring the sacrifice those soldiers made.