Video of our troops in action

[Peace_by_superior _power]

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/videos/irspotlight.html

A night battle (if uwant to call it a fight) between our boys and some terrorists

[medic92]

That was fun to watch!

[Mr. Glass]

http://www.angrymobclan.com/facism.mov

This was lastnight in a remote area of Utah. US Troops posing as a SWAT team raided and shut down a legal Rave over fears that it might be some kind of recruiting base for terrorists to attack the planned Utah demostrations against Bush.

Let me get this straight.....

US MILITARY TROOPS... being used to enforce an ILLEGAL raid on a LEGAL GATHERING of Students having a Back-to-school Rave (no terrorists, WMDs, or even drugs were found AFAIK).... on AMERICAN soil....

Isn't _THAT_ Illegal? Oh..Patriot act.. NEVERMIND then, go ahead...

This is one more reason I view this Administration as devolving into a fascist, authoritarian powerbase.

*shrug*

This is video of our troops in action, acting in a dishonrable and illegal manner. (Oh, I consider the Patriot act to be illegal, so any laws enforced under it's scope are also illegal in nature)

-Doug

edit:

http://www.utahcountyonline.org/News/DeptNewsDetails.asp?ID=17759&WN_System=SHERIFF
This is the link to the "official" story. They said arrests were made for drug possesion, I'll wait and see if there are any convictions tho, as is the new protocol.

While the shriff office has some good points in context of their statement, their assesment is way off base. There are bigger problems, bigger crimes, and badder bad guys out there, this was a bunch of kids who were doing all they could to stay legal, do what they needed to, and just didn't have the right paperwork.

I don't think teargas, SWAT teams, helicopters, and paramilitary assaults were justified.

.....

You know 2 night ago here in Albuquerque two police officers were ruthlessly murdered by an insane man as they approached him for questioning...At the time I was saddened and thought "man, why the hell would someone, crazy or not, just shoot two cops for no good reason?"...

Then I see video like this.... and I understand... there is a culture war going on. Youth and subversive/counter culture people are being terrorized by police, and the recent tragedy here is a natural* response to police abuses of the public. I don't think killing anyone, especially police officers, is warrented, justifiable, or acceptable.... but I think I'm starting to understand what makes some people feel like it's their only alternative. It seems a lot of people today carry guns for protection not only from criminals, but from zealot police who threaten the stability of our society.... and if the system as a whole cannot regulate our system of law enforcement then people are going to take matters into their own hands, no matter what morals and law say about it.

I am a law abiding, respectful, contributing member of society and I say this is going too far.... When are the police going to listen?

-Doug

edit 2:

* By natural I mean it's in our human nature to seek revenge / justice based on our own individual view of what that means. I don't think Natural means good, justified, righteous, or even normal. I mean, it's human nature to defend oneself from an attack, no matter if that attack is warrented or not.

-Doug, again

[Miro Satan Fan]

.mov[/url]This was lastnight in a remote area of Utah. US Troops posing as a SWAT team raided and shut down a legal Rave over fears that it might be some kind of recruiting base for terrorists to attack the planned Utah demostrations against Bush.

The Utah Sheriffs' Office is not militry related, so I don't know where this would have anything to do w/ facism. The group to my understanding was making threats about Bush but only joking and the police where just doing there job.

I don't think teargas, SWAT teams, helicopters, and paramilitary assaults were justified.
I agree w/ you here but in Chicago for a bust that is nothing.
Remember, in Brasil drug dealers and drug users are shot dead on sight, no questions asked, no second chance....so ask yourself what is more extreme.

[Mr. Glass]

Ok, I know the Utah Sheriff isn't THE military, but what's the differnce these days? At what point DO you call a paramilitary SWAT police team a "Military" force? They had fully automatic weapons, military style tactical gear, helicopters, and acted like a military strike team .... you compare this video to the videos of troops in Iraq, and you can hardly tell a differnce..... I guess you can always say as long as they're "police" they're not "military" but with so many police officers being in the national guard and reserves, they have the same training, the same weapons, the same tools.... At this point I think paperwork really is all that separates our police from our military.

Also.... two more things.

This was in BFE, Utah, and was a rave... this was NOT a Chicago crackhouse. Are you unwaware of the differnce, or just trying to compare the 2?

And... This is America, not Brasil, and I'm not asking if Brasil's tactics against drugs are valid, I'm asking if this was an over-reaction bordering on illegal within the context of busting a PARTY, in AMERICA.

Are you excusing one groups action by comparison to another country acting in a relatively more extreme method? The old "Well, they're worse, so we're innocent" defense? Please....

[Miro Satan Fan]

Ok, I know the Utah Sheriff isn't THE military, but what's the differnce these days? At what point DO you call a paramilitary SWAT police team a "Military" force? They had fully automatic weapons, military style tactical gear, helicopters, and acted like a military strike team .... you compare this video to the videos of troops in Iraq, and you can hardly tell a differnce.....
Chicago police is just like this and they have been this way since 1968 election. I am use to seeing this so it doesn't effect me. It is just an ever day thing in the city.





This was in BFE, Utah, and was a rave... this was NOT a Chicago crackhouse. Are you unwaware of the differnce, or just trying to compare the 2? Did you know a lot more drugs are going around there. Young kids and XTC. In Chicago's Rave scene Heroin is killing teenagers and so is Meth. 213 overdoses this year at raves. It needs to stop.







And... This is America, not Brasil, and I'm not asking if Brasil's tactics against drugs are valid, I'm asking if this was an over-reaction bordering on illegal within the context of busting a PARTY, in AMERICA.
Are you excusing one groups action by comparison to another country acting in a relatively more extreme method? The old "Well, they're worse, so we're innocent" defense? Please....

There was nothing illegal about busting this party. They made threats, they had drugs. Just because this is a little town and not Chicago size, there should only be 3 cops with no weapons. The cops went there on a tip that someone was being threatened, and drugs where involved. They did everything one is suppose to do.

As for Brasil, I just made your point that you stated from post #3 on this thread. The Patroit Act had nothing to do w/ this Sheriffs' department going into busting up this party. Bush's Administration had nothing to do w/ this party bust. So how could this be true ...
This is one more reason I view this Administration as devolving into a fascist, authoritarian powerbase

[Mr. Glass]

Whatever your view of what/why this happend, it's starting to gain momentum. A friend of mine told me about this today at school, and when I got home all I could find was the video from his (or the group he's a part of anyways) website. Now it's being posted on rawstory, crooks&liers, DailyKos, and every other blog/forum I come across....

The reason I said what I said is because under a more moderate administration police agencies wouldn't dare to do this for fear of lawsuits that would quickly escalate to the federal lavel. With the Bush administration in power, and the overarching rules of the Patriot act police have had their powers increased and they're starting to over-flex their new powers. Under Clinton the biggest police scandle was the rodney king beating, and those were just regular officers in uniform... now we're seeing military style raids on organized gatherings that end in riots, violence, and dozens if not hundreds of arrests, and it's becomeing a regualr thing.

I really don't remember peaceful protesters getting teargasses, tased, and crushed by mounted police 7-8 years ago when we were protesting Kosovo (yes, some of us were against Clintons war too) and we were out in the street making noise and blocking traffic.... now days you can't assemble more than 10-15 people without 100 cops in riot gear showing up and forcing us to disperse.....THAT is an authoritarian abuse of power, a defining point of fascism.

Also, if you even read the sheriffs statement, you'll see that they were in the planning stages of this raid for a considerable amount of time beforethe event. They were NOT acting on a call for help or a report of criminal behavior, this was a planned strike from the moment they caught wind of the RAVE.

I wonder, have you ever been to a rave? I've sponsored several, I've spent over $10,000 of my own money to promote and produce raves/parties, and we've always worked closely with the police and liscenced security and catering companies. After the RAVE act was porkbarreled into a budget bill we had to really clean up and make sure things were being run properly. A local municipality cannot prevent Americans from gathering, and that's what the permits are aimed at doing, so that will quickly be thrown out at a federal level. With the RAVE act came strict laws that impose heavy fines and jail time on promoters who throw underground/illegal raves in which drugs are found, so we have to hire some heavy security, usually off duty police, to search everyone comming in. Sometimes things sip through, and I can promise you that if someone is caught they're going to get tossed. We're not in the business of telling individuals that they can't do drugs then come to a rave, but if you break the law there and get caught, we have to protect ourselves, so your ass is grass.

There was no valid reason for them to break up this party. This was a calculated and unwarrented attack on a group of like minded liberal/progressive youth who were gathering in the desert to promote their way of thinking through music, dance, and free expression.

I don't applogize for the people who bring drugs to these events, but I have seen dozens of similar events go off without a hitch, when there's criminal activity reported the police usually repsond to the incident as a singularity, they don't shut down the entire rave and then beat up and arrest anyone who is a bystander when read the riot act.

I still wonder how you can compare a crackhouse in chicago full of dangerous criminals to a rave in the desert attended by a bunch of stoned kids.

I guess you dont understand the differnce between Crack Cocaine and Techno Music....

-Doug

[Android]

US MILITARY TROOPS... being used to enforce an ILLEGAL raid on a LEGAL GATHERING of Students having a Back-to-school Rave (no terrorists, WMDs, or even drugs were found AFAIK).... on AMERICAN soil....

Isn't _THAT_ Illegal? Oh..Patriot act.. NEVERMIND then, go ahead...

This is one more reason I view this Administration as devolving into a fascist, authoritarian powerbase.

*shrug*


-Doug, again
Its amazing, how come NOW everything is the Patriot Act's fault? Lets see.... Ruby Ridge, Waco, Hmmm... who was IN POWER then? Janet Reno was more dangerous then than Bush is now, period. After all, that's what freaked Timothy Mcveigh into doing what he did. Isn't that the blame game the left is playing just the other way around? Timothy Mcveigh was a nut job, so are those we are fighting now. I hear how we contribute to Terrorism because of our "policies". well right back at those who spew this shit, that's what contributed to Tim Mcveigh. There's no doubting it, cant have one excuse without the other.
Everyones toting that party line and got the blinders on. I for one would rather have the terroists we have now gunning for us then the local Timmy Mcveighs, easier to spot, easier to shoot.

[Mr. Glass]

Lol... dont even get me started on Waco.... That was big time illegal, but now, under the patriot act, it would be legal on paper.

The reason I am critical of Bush, and this administration, is because they're the ones in power. Stop labeling me a liberal that supported everything Clinton and his administration did.... The whole damn system has gone sour, and it started back during Vietnam and the threat of communism. Clinton was as much a part of the system gone bad as Bush is, but he's no longer in power. What's more important to you man, a stain on a dress 10 years ago, or an out of controll government that's getting people killed TODAY?

Drop the politics, none of us are perfect, and just because you call yourself a conservative or a republican is NO excuse to give your party a free ticket to go unchecked. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutly.

Bush, and to a much greater degree, his crony cabinet, is a SERIOUS threat to global security, right up there with Militant Islam.... we're pissing off as many people as they have pissing us off, and at some point, something is going to give. I'd rather take my chance and risk being a nuclear martyr to terroroists bombs than be on the side that pulls the trigger. I dont think we should tuck-tail and run, we made our mess and we have to clean it up, but make no mistake, Iraq _IS_ a mess, even by conservative measures. What we need is a new leader who will LEAD instead of the neocon puppet Bush is. He's a smart guy, and he's not a coward or an idiot... but he's not being honest, he's not leading, and he's being used as a tool by everyone from Cheney and Rumsfield to The ultra-conservative christian right and the drug industry.

*sigh* but I guess it doesn't matter... something on cspan I wanna see... gotta go

-Doug

[Android]

Republican? Nope. We have been thru this before. Not a Republican, sure some of my views are very conservative when it comes to our defense but thats about it. So who labled who. I dont beleive I mentioned the blue dress stain did I, i'll double check that but I think thats a different topic all together. The point I'm going for here Doug is the fact that its amazing how many people are up in arms over the patriot act now. Where were all these protestors a few years ago when their guy was in office doing the same thing? Does that not bread terrorism? Thats the point I am trying to make, but since you brought up the blue dress............... :icon_lol:

[Mr. Glass]

Blue dress or Kosovo, you're still fixating on stuff that happend 10 years ago and trying to use that as an excuse for inaction today. I don't CARE where anyone was during Clintons administration, that was THEN, this is NOW, and there's only one way we go: forward.

Do you have anything to say about the actual issue at hand, or are you going to dwell on what liberals were doing during Clintons time? Every time I hear I self-proclaimed conservatives bring up Kosovo all I hear is an excuse for innaction from the right today.

You can't even begin to compare the 2. Kosovo was a short term war fought from 30,000 feet 10 years ago. Iraq is a quagmire of vietnam proportions TODAY....


It's appaling that rather than face and debate the real issue you want to keep harping on Clinton and how he dealt with things. I hear you all bitching about the "blame america first" people, then in the next breath you blame Clinton for not doing anything... news flash people, like him or not, Clinton is an American, a 2 term president American. So this is all his fault then?

NOW is real folks, THEN is History. We have to understand History, but there's no real point in debating it vis-a-vis where we go from here.

-Doug

[Douglas Adams]

just a side-note.....
i've posted this before but nobody repsonded. So, if you like Military Videos...
check this (http://grouchymedia.com/) out.

Just five more posts....

[Android]

Do you have anything to say about the actual issue at hand, or are you going to dwell on what liberals were doing during Clintons time? Every time I hear I self-proclaimed conservatives bring up Kosovo all I hear is an excuse for innaction from the right today.


-Doug
Actually sir, you brought up Clinton. I mentioned Reno and you went from there. And I was asking why there wasn't an outcry then. (meaning how the uber libs pick and choose whats right and wrong.) Kosovo is a much bigger topic for a different thread, so i wont go there at this time.
I have lots too say about the current issues at hand, I don't like people I know and family of mine being shot at that's for sure. I'm one that would like to see the leaders go in first. That's all leaders, George, Hillary, Cheney and most of all that drunk FU&$ Ted, if they have a problem then they should cowboy up before my kid, cousin or best friend gets blown up by some sour ass Rag Head.
Don't point at me, I just asked questions around here and end up getting Sobbed on and screamed at from you and spike jumping the gun.
But I still love ya man.

[LiberalsAreBabyKillers!]

This was lastnight in a remote area of Utah. US Troops posing as a SWAT team raided and shut down a legal Rave over fears that it might be some kind of recruiting base for terrorists to attack the planned Utah demostrations against Bush.
The terrorists aren't gonna attack an anti-Bush demonstartion, they are anti-Bush! those people are supporting their cause. Mr.Glass you are a liberal and so these rouge troops are on you're side, conservative troops would nevber do that. Sounds like you Mr.Glass taking an isoliated (spelling) fluke step out of line by our troops and berate all of them, the very people keeping you free.

[LiberalsAreBabyKillers!]

By the way the video is PIMP