Now Dish Network has done it

[Avid_Liberal_Hater]

I'm curious what other people think of outsourcing. I'd like to get liberal perspective as well. It occured to me that I don't remember seeing an outsourcing thread on this site. I think it's insulting for a company to take your money and then expect you to communicate with someone halfway around the world who speaks broken English.

Yesteray, I called Dish Network for a question, and I ended up speaking with an Indian who could barely communicate in English. Every time I'd called previously, I reached an American, so this must be a new thing. After every question that I asked, it was clear that he was pausing to consult a FAQ sheet. He was also clueless. I even asked at one point where he was located, and he replied with a Draconian 'I can't disclose that'. Beautiful.

I used to work for a company that used to be really good. Then they jumped on the Screw American Workers bandwagon and began to send MANY jobs off shore. They always call it 'cost cutting' measures, but the savings never get passed on to consumers. I believe that the only people who benefit are wealthy corporate executives. And, of course, foreigners with a narrow grasp of the English language.

Here is a link to companies that have jumped on the F*ck American Workers bandwagon:
http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/lou.dobbs.tonight/popups/exporting.america/content.html

[short circut]

the liberals see this happening yet they insist on more free trade acts which make this possible.

[Avid_Liberal_Hater]

the liberals see this happening yet they insist on more free trade acts which make this possible.

You'll have to include GWB in that category, but then he's turning into a bleeding heart, so I guess it's only natural.

[Android]

I'm curious what other people think of outsourcing. I'd like to get liberal perspective as well. It occured to me that I don't remember seeing an outsourcing thread on this site. I think it's insulting for a company to take your money and then expect you to communicate with someone halfway around the world who speaks broken English.

Yesteray, I called Dish Network for a question, and I ended up speaking with an Indian who could barely communicate in English. Every time I'd called previously, I reached an American, so this must be a new thing. After every question that I asked, it was clear that he was pausing to consult a FAQ sheet. He was also clueless. I even asked at one point where he was located, and he replied with a Draconian 'I can't disclose that'. Beautiful.

I used to work for a company that used to be really good. Then they jumped on the Screw American Workers bandwagon and began to send MANY jobs off shore. They always call it 'cost cutting' measures, but the savings never get passed on to consumers. I believe that the only people who benefit are wealthy corporate executives. And, of course, foreigners with a narrow grasp of the English language.

Here is a link to companies that have jumped on the F*ck American Workers bandwagon:
http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/lou.dobbs.tonight/popups/exporting.america/content.html


I work in the Audio Video Field. I have to call Tech support on all sorts of items. You are right, more and more I'm speaking to someone who cant understand me and I sure as hell cant understand them. Its kind of like ordering from McDonald's drive thru window. Bad connection, different language!.

[FightinDaMan]

the liberals see this happening yet they insist on more free trade acts which make this possible.


Is that the case? Should we look at the breakdown on the CAFTA vote for a minute...

Republican: 202 aye, 27 no, 2 abstain
Democrat: 15 aye, 187 no
Independent: 1 no

The senate roll does not seem to list by party, but there are many more Rs in the aye and Ds in the nay than vice versa. http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00209#position

[Avid_Liberal_Hater]

Is that the case? Should we look at the breakdown on the CAFTA vote for a minute...

Republican: 202 aye, 27 no, 2 abstain
Democrat: 15 aye, 187 no
Independent: 1 no



I have to take FDM's side. The Repub's are really getting under my skin lately, and so is their fearless leader.

America should come first, not Central America, or India, or China, or any other 3rd world nation.

[Count Rugen]

I think that a true capitalist would want to get the job done with the lowest bottom line possible, and that means foreign call centers.
Be careful, it's easy to become a facist under the flag of conservativism.

[short circut]

Is that the case? Should we look at the breakdown on the CAFTA vote for a minute...

Republican: 202 aye, 27 no, 2 abstain
Democrat: 15 aye, 187 no
Independent: 1 no

The senate roll does not seem to list by party, but there are many more Rs in the aye and Ds in the nay than vice versa. http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00209#position


i never expected to see that.
what wrong here. I dont want to aggre with democrats for once. But it seem si may need to. why do the republicans seem to be favoring the big business over the people. I thought that was a myth that the liberals came up with to scare middle and lowerclass people.

[Mr. Glass]

CAFTA aside... you can brand me a liberal if you want to, I sometimes do. My take is that this "outsourceing" is a load of BS for the most part.

When CEOs are making in excess of 300x the take home pay of their employees there is no reason at all to cut costs by sending jobs overseas. We can't deny that we live in a rapidly shrinking world with an ever growing international economy.... but I'm still in favor of keeping what we can here in the way of jobs.

I've heard the areguement that american greed and excess drive companies to seek lower paid workers overseas to supply our ever growing demand for more service and product.... but that's an unfairly narrow look at a larger picture. I don't deny that American demand out paces our supply quite often, and so we import many goods simply because we cannot keep up with demand or are unable to even supply some items (like... you cant really get a german sportscar if it's made in detroit... not really)

But other things, like service industry (tech support, order fulfillment, rebate processing, etc), agriculture, automotive, and manucafturing are things that could and should stay here in the US whenever possible.

As for siding with republicans or democrats over this... from a non-party affliated person, I would have to say stop judgeing a persons merits solely on their party affiliation. It's time to elect more independants, it's time to start paying attentiuon to what the people we elect actually do once elected. The progressive liberal movement has seen for years that republicans are a big business party. Politics is a big money indutsry, I don't think it should be, but it is. campaigns are running in to the hundreds of millions of dollars.... the little guy CANNOT be represented in that on either side, and it needs to stop.

anyways, I'm feeling too ranty to go on... for what it's worth to ya: If you consider me to be some communist baby eating liberal or just a bit left of center.... I think the idea of sending jobs over seas is ludicris and needs to be stopped.

I also think these big corporations that do 99% of their business in the US then ship all that money into an off-shore tax haven need to be run out of the country or heavily tarrif goods and services from businesses located in those places.

-Doug

[Bumblebee]

I don't think we need to worry about CAFTA. It will affect us very little, if at all.

About the techs, that I've also had, it's true that they can hardly speak English, and when they do, I can't understand them. My friends are always complaining about it because they don't seem to know that much either.

It hasn't happened recently, we've been outsourcing jobs to India (NAFTA) for many years. If we're lucky, we do get Americans when we call. India is the biggest that we outsource with because they "speak English". :icon_roll

[Wadi66]

Bumblebee, did you know that we weren't suppose to be impacted (except in a positive was) by NAFTA either. But actually we've lost over 900,000 jobs. Mexico's economy has been devastated which is why they are streaming across the border looking for work. Never believe a politician. They are master snake oil salesmen.

[RightisRightLeftisWrong]

I think that a true capitalist would want to get the job done with the lowest bottom line possible, and that means foreign call centers.
Be careful, it's easy to become a facist under the flag of conservativism.

Count its been awhile since you've been on.

and i guess its easy to become a socialist under the flag of liberalism.

but yes I do disagree what they are doing I used to have Dish Network we have Digtal Cable now im sure they are doing the same thing.

[Avid_Liberal_Hater]

I think that a true capitalist would want to get the job done with the lowest bottom line possible, and that means foreign call centers.
Be careful, it's easy to become a facist under the flag of conservativism.

There is a clear and distinct problem when I cannot communicate effectively with whomever the company is expecting me to.

[HOKIEHUNTER]

you all think this is bad, have you heard about this (i heard this on the radio of like paul harvey or something so i don't have a link):
McDonald's is considering using Indian call centers in it's drive thru's. In todays technological age, an internaitonal call can be made cheaply, and it actually costs less than paying an American to man the drive through mic. that's right, when you pull up to micky dees you may end up talking to haji in India rather than billy, susie, or jermonika (gotta be PC) in the drive through line. this is a bit extreme but when you consider the fact that $1=50 some rupies, it's quite a bit cheaper...

[Bumblebee]

Bumblebee, did you know that we weren't suppose to be impacted (except in a positive was) by NAFTA either. But actually we've lost over 900,000 jobs. Mexico's economy has been devastated which is why they are streaming across the border looking for work. Never believe a politician. They are master snake oil salesmen.

But of course, Clinton administration passed NAFTA. Clinton was 100% for it, and pushed it.

[Wadi66]

But of course, Clinton administration passed NAFTA. Clinton was 100% for it, and pushed it.Yes and all those who voted for it, Dem and Rep, said our economy wouldn't suffer. That was my point. Liars... all of them, either that or we're smarter than they are.

[IHL]

When CEOs are making in excess of 300x the take home pay of their employees there is no reason at all to cut costs by sending jobs overseas. What the CEO of a company makes has little to do if anything with what the employees are paid. I've heard this argument too often and I must disagree with it.

Liberals often like to put people on a level playing field. While many will not go so far as to say that everyone should be paid the same, they do tend to believe much more in the wealth distribution method, i.e., Karl Marx "From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs." Conservative tend to believe that people should be paid what they are worth based on what they bring to the company, their overall job function, and how easily they are replaced. The last one is the big one. If you can get 1000 people to replace one of your employees - a fast food clerk for example - that job won't pay as much. If however, you have a CEO of a corporation that is responsible for billions of dollars of assets and that CEO has the potential to save a company billions of dollars if he does his job well, he is worth millions of dollars to that company. Literally. To pay him (or her) millions of dollars in salary is still a great deal for the company in that scenario.

Liberals and especially union workers will see a multi-million dollar salary and scream bloody murder. You've heard it - "No one is worth that much money." "No one needs that much money!" Whether they need it or not is subjective. Whether they are worth it or not isn't. They are, by definition, worth it. Not in all cases certainly, but in many.

It's not unlike an athlete. Was Michael Jordon worth the millions of dollars that we was paid to simply play a game? Many would argue that he was not. If you owned the Chicago Bulls, you thought much differently. Jordon brought in several times his salary in increased ticket sales, publicity and endorsements to the team. Was he worth it? You bet he was. Should someone make millions of dollars for playing a game? That is a separate debate.

[WhiteAfricanAmerican]

I've heard the areguement that american greed and excess drive companies to seek lower paid workers overseas to supply our ever growing demand for more service and product.... but that's an unfairly narrow look at a larger picture.

Did you ever look at an economic model of a company?

The biggest expense in the whole chain is the employee. From salary, to benefits etc, an employee is the biggest expense out there.

As such, if you reduce your expenditure in any area, the price of your product ought to come down.

So, the greed and inflexibility of the US consumer directly influences the exodus of jobs.

For example: My wife's dad worked at the local GM Plant. I met a guy there that brags about how he, earns 100 000/year DRIVING A SWEEPER AROUND THE PLANT!

Honestly now, $48/hr to drive a sweeper? Now multiply that by every gm plant in the US, and think about how much money is being spent. Also consider that it costs gm 15000 to build a pick up.

Either the consumer needs to accept the fact that he's not going to get things today at the prices of the 1960's, or he's going to have to accept the fact that jobs are going to go overseas.


anyways, I'm feeling too ranty to go on... for what it's worth to ya: If you consider me to be some communist baby eating liberal

You like that description....dont you?


I also think these big corporations that do 99% of their business in the US then ship all that money into an off-shore tax haven need to be run out of the country or heavily tarrif goods and services from businesses located in those places.

Would that include the legacy billionaries and Hollywood eliteists?

[rightwingxtremist]

HP's tech support is 100% India Indian these days, at least, that's all I can seem to reach. Not only is it outsourced, but it sucks... Sure, they are friendly on the phone, and you can almost understand them, but they all read out of the same book, and follow the steps listed on the book, with seemingly no clue as to how to actually fix the problem. I see it as HP's way of saying "You gave me money, but I hate you, and here is the tech support you will receive because you are a little person". I went Mac in March, so we'll see how they fare. The first person I called for tech support was American (even though probably a rabid liberal, living in Cupertino)

- Nate

[Canilz]

Also consider that it costs gm 15000 to build a pick up.

I don't think it costs that much. It Probally ends up being 2-5 thousand to make a truck... But I don't have any numbers...

[FKLBRLS]

The thing that is often misunderstood about outsourcing is that when a company lays off workers and moves overseas, the now-jobless workers are screwed for life and there are no jobs out there to replace their old one. THIS IS NOT THE CASE! With all the manufacturing jobs that are outsourced, jobs at distribution centers are created. With all the jobs that we outsource overseas, companies from places like Korea and Japan are outsourcing jobs in their own countries and sending them overseas. The outsourcing will not lead to mass unemployment, but it will lead to a mass employment of Americans by foreign companies. THIS SUCKS! Americans should work for American companies, Asians should work for Asian companies. The political side of outsourcing is: Republicans believe that people and businesses have a right to keep the money they earned, but they never look into how that money is being earned. Democrats want to police how money is earned so much that they are willing to control the money by having it all go to the government and then redistributing it to everyone. Neither party has a viable solution to outsourcing. What we ought to do is give companies a 5-year period, along with subsidies, to build a large number of plants, call centers, etc. in America. After this 5-year period is up, large tariffs could be put in place for bringing manufactured items into the US. But hopefully by the time the tariffs are in place there should be no need for plants overseas. In addition, the high tariffs would mean more companies from overseas opening plants here, further enhancing the job market.

[Wadi66]

When it comes to putting high tariffs on imported items, just remember, what goes around, comes around. You can be certain that other countries will then place high tariffs on items we export.

The thing that bothers me the most about our manufactoring moving to other countries is that in addition to the loss of lower end jobs, is that we can be controlled through economics. Right now we have no steel mills in the U.S. that makes steel from raw materials. That means that in a time of war or massive construction involving steel, everything must be imported. The supplier could charge whatever they wanted or not accept the orders at all. I'm not comfortable with that. I have never like being over a barrell, and likewise, I never put others in that position either.

Russia, China, North Korea and the Middle East, will NEVER be our allies. You can trust them as far as you can throw them.

Latin America is rapidly coming under the influence and control of Marxist regimes. How long before we realize we're being surrounded. Being independent has always been a good thing.

[WhiteAfricanAmerican]

I don't think it costs that much. It Probally ends up being 2-5 thousand to make a truck... But I don't have any numbers...

Am I reading this right?, did he just make a statement and then invalidate it in one sentence???????


It costs GM $15k to build a pick up. What part of "My wifes dad worked for GM" didn't you understand?

[WhiteAfricanAmerican]

Latin America is rapidly coming under the influence and control of Marxist regimes. How long before we realize we're being surrounded. Being independent has always been a good thing.

Isn't Venezula trying to play 'super power' by demanding the US kow-tow to it, or they'll cut off their oil shipments to us?

We need to go in there an slap them around a bit.

[Peace_by_superior _power]

Isn't Venezula trying to play 'super power' by demanding the US kow-tow to it, or they'll cut off their oil shipments to us?

We need to go in there an slap them around a bit.

And they tried to stop giving americans visas to visit there... not like anyone wants too.