Debunking 8 Anti-War Myths About The Conflict In Iraq

[thumbelina]

Myths debunked in this column include:

1) George Bush lied about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
2) A study released in March of 2003 by a British medical journal, the Lancet, showed that 100,000 civilians had been killed as a result of the US invasion.
3) The Bush Administration claimed Iraq was responsible for 9/11.
4) The war in Iraq was actually planned by people like Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, and Paul Wolfowitz back in 1998 at a think tank called the Project for the New American Century.
5) The war on terror has nothing to do with Iraq.
6) Saddam Hussein had no ties to terrorism.
7) Saddam Hussein had no ties to Al-Qaeda.
8) The Downing Street Memo proves Bush lied to the American people about the war.

Click here (http://www.rightwingnews.com/special/xyz.php) to read the column.

[short circut]

thas interesting. Now i have facts to prove others wrong with. now if it only could come from a major news site so they would believe it.

[lordnyra]

thats it the evidence that the libs dont want to see. hahaha
i laugh at the libs and there stupid arguments
thank you thumbelina and email that to cnn and all the news agencies

[RightisRightLeftisWrong]

Nice thumbelina I dont have time to read all of that but I will find the time very soon.

[NewKindOfSoldier]

"When you add it all up, it appears that George Bush, like a lot of other people, was wrong about Saddam Hussein having stockpiles of WMDs. But without question, he did not lie about it."

Err why? Just because alot of people also thought they were there, partly because of pro-government propaganda on the part of FOX and CNN, doesnt mean bush didnt lie.

"Given all that, how any informed person can buy into Lancet's numbers is simply beyond me. "

its more reliable than any other statistic. You cant believe the government of the US (or its media) , you sure as hell cant believe Saddam or his media, so the Lancets ESTIMATE is the best one you can get.

"The Bush Administration claimed Iraq was responsible for 9/11. "

they did claim he had ties with terrorist organisations SUCH AS Al Qaeda, which is simply impossible seeing as Al Qaeda volunteered to the Saudi Government in the first gulf war to fight against saddam (this was rejected in favour of american intervention)

"The reality is just as Frum pointed out: overthrowing Saddam Hussein by hook or crook was the de facto policy of the US government for more than a decade before the war in Iraq and the disagreement was over how to do it. That argument was settled in many people's minds by 9/11, not by people conspiring in a think tank back in 1998. "

yea so? Fact is PNAC has great sway in the current gov. and probably caused the attack on Iraq. BTW: pnac has always said the US needs a pearl harbor like event to make it attack for example iraq...then...suddenly...9/11 happened...now im not saying they did it but it was kinda convenient now was it?

"The war on terror has nothing to do with Iraq."

ofcourse it hasnt cuz there were no terrorists in iraq, al qaeda hated saddam cuz he was secular.

"Saddam Hussein had no ties to terrorism"

see above

"Saddam Hussein had no ties to Al-Qaeda"

see above and the part about the first gulf war.

"The Downing Street Memo proves Bush lied to the American people about the war."

dont care if its true or not i hate bush whether he was just being plain stupid or just lying i dont care

[thumbelina]

The Mother of All Connections (http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/005/804yqqnr.asp)

From the July 18, 2005 issue: A special report on the new evidence of collaboration between Saddam Hussein's Iraq and al Qaeda.

[WhiteAfricanAmerican]

"When you add it all up, it appears that George Bush, like a lot of other people, was wrong about Saddam Hussein having stockpiles of WMDs. But without question, he did not lie about it."

Err why? Just because alot of people also thought they were there, partly because of pro-government propaganda on the part of FOX and CNN, doesnt mean bush didnt lie.

Are you really this ignorant, or are you making a special effort today?

Here let me educate you,

1) Saddam had WMD's ask the Kurds

2) His agreement with the UN was that HE would SYSTEMATICALLY detroy them and dismantle his programs (That means HE HAD THEM) UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF UNSCOM. Notice; this was not an agreement for UNSCOM to play hide and go seak.

3) Of the people that in your mind were 'propoganized by CNN and FNC' the following are included.

US Senate
Entire DNC
UN Security Council
GRU (Russian Military Intel)
MI-5 (British Military Intel)

Considering 3 of the above 5 groups of people are foreign bodies, and 2 of them are less than friendly with the Bush Admin, I'd say your assessment of them being propaganized is b/s.


"Given all that, how any informed person can buy into Lancet's numbers is simply beyond me. "

its more reliable than any other statistic. You cant believe the government of the US (or its media) , you sure as hell cant believe Saddam or his media, so the Lancets ESTIMATE is the best one you can get.

Really? Why? I'd like have more to go on that "Lancet isn't the US Govt or the Iraqi Govt" that is the kind of arguement a 5 year old would make.



"The Bush Administration claimed Iraq was responsible for 9/11. "

they did claim he had ties with terrorist organisations SUCH AS Al Qaeda, which is simply impossible seeing as Al Qaeda volunteered to the Saudi Government in the first gulf war to fight against saddam (this was rejected in favour of american intervention)


Wrong again kiddo. Unless you can come up with a source that shows Bush stating Iraq's culpability, it would be better for you to shut you mouth. Apparently the concept of factual statements is lost on you.


"The reality is just as Frum pointed out: overthrowing Saddam Hussein by hook or crook was the de facto policy of the US government for more than a decade before the war in Iraq and the disagreement was over how to do it. That argument was settled in many people's minds by 9/11, not by people conspiring in a think tank back in 1998. "

yea so? Fact is PNAC has great sway in the current gov. and probably caused the attack on Iraq. BTW: pnac has always said the US needs a pearl harbor like event to make it attack for example iraq...then...suddenly...9/11 happened...now im not saying they did it but it was kinda convenient now was it?

Gotta love someone that begins an arguement with "Yeah, so....."

Present these facts would you; where is it demonstrated that PNAC has 'great sway' in the govt, or is this another conspiracy theory?

When has PNAC said that we need another pearl harbor (Date, speech and link if you please)




"The war on terror has nothing to do with Iraq."

ofcourse it hasnt cuz there were no terrorists in iraq, al qaeda hated saddam cuz he was secular.

Really? You're sure of that right?

So the fact that Ansar al Islam had a training camp in Iraq, is obviously b/s...because you say so?

BWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH


"Saddam Hussein had no ties to terrorism"

see above

How do you know that? hmmmmm. Do you have in roads with Saddam that no one else in the world does?



"Saddam Hussein had no ties to Al-Qaeda"

see above and the part about the first gulf war.

See above.


"The Downing Street Memo proves Bush lied to the American people about the war."

dont care if its true or not i hate bush whether he was just being plain stupid or just lying i dont care



Ahhhh now we come to the real problem. It has nothing to do with facts, it has EVERYTHING to do with how this idiot feels about Bush.

Bush could snap his fingers and bring world peace and this sheep and his ilk would find something wrong with the Bush snapped his fingers to demonize him.

I'd suggest you grow up NKOS, but you're prolly afraid of heights

[HOKIEHUNTER]

"The war on terror has nothing to do with Iraq."

ofcourse it hasnt cuz there were no terrorists in iraq, al qaeda hated saddam cuz he was secular.

"Saddam Hussein had no ties to terrorism"

see above

"Saddam Hussein had no ties to Al-Qaeda"

see above and the part about the first gulf war.


wow isn't kinda coincidental that during WWII the USSR was communist and didn't get along with us at all? basically the US and USSR had nothing in common, pretty much hated each other, and had no real friendly ties, right? does anyone remember what ended up happening in that war? was it just me or did our 2 countries come together to defeat the germans? i think i'm right how bout you guys? so that would mean that two countries that didn't like each other came together to fight a common enemy. hmmm, how about that. i'm guess that was the only time in history that two enemys came together to fight a common enemy. I guess the saying, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" is not common at all.

dumbass, the two countries had unofficial, under the table ties. you want proof? that situation doesn't lend itself to providing much proof. last time i checked people don't keep receipts on illegal activities, but AQ was and is a very well funded group. where are they getting all their money from??? and do you people not watch the news? about every other day there's a headline about AQ claiming a suicide attack in iraq. if iraq didn't support the terrorists before, why are they coming to the aid of the iraqi insurgents???????????? this isn't rocket science people. are you not intelligent enough to draw your own conclusions about things? do you really need some one to hold your hand all the way through making simple connections?

[LindaSoG]

... cuz there were no terrorists in iraq...

This statement reflects an amazing level of ignorance of foreign affairs, the origins and the impact of terrorism and of course, the history of Iraq.

Iraq and terrorism go back decades. Baghdad trained Palestine Liberation Front members in small arms and explosives. Saddam used the Arab Liberation Front to funnel money to the families of Palestinian suicide bombers in order to prolong the Intifada. And it's no secret that Saddam's own intelligence service was involved in dozens of attacks or attempted assassinations in the 1990s.

Iraq was a haven for palestinian international terrorist Abu Abbas (http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/04/15/sprj.irq.abbas.arrested/), who was captured in Baghdad in April of 2003. Palestinian terrorists under Abbas' command hijacked the Achille Lauro in October 1985. During the hijacking, Leon Klinghoffer -- a 69-year-old wheelchair-bound American Jew who was with his wife of 36 years on the cruise -- was killed and dumped into the sea. "He created troubles. He was handicapped but he was inciting and provoking the other passengers. So, the decision was made to kill him," Abbas told the Boston Globe in 1998.

Abu Abbas had been living in Baghdad since 1994, under the protection of Saddam Hussein.

Iraq was a haven for palestinian international terrorist Abu Nidal (http://cfrterrorism.org/groups/abunidal.html), and The Abu Nidal Organization ("ANO"), in fact, Saddam participated in forming the ANO, sheltered the ANO, and sponsored ANO. The ANO is responsible for terrorist attacks in 20 different countries, which killed more than 300 people, as well as wounding hundreds more. In the mid-1980s, the group was seen as the world’s most dangerous terrorist organization. Experts say that Abu Nidal worked with Iraqi intelligence while representing Fatah in Baghdad. Although Saddam Hussein expelled Abu Nidal and the ANO in an attempt to win American military support for Iraq’s 1980s war with Iran, once the war ended, Iraq resumed its support of Abu Nidal. The ANO is now believed to be based in Iraq, with cells in Palestinian refugee camps in Lebanon.

Iraq was a haven for the radical Kurdish Islamic terrorist group Ansar al-Islam (http://www.iraqinews.com/org_ansar_al-islam.shtml). This terrorist group has ties with both the Taliban and with al-Qaeda. It is the most radical group operating in the Iraqi Kurdistan region. Ansar al-Islam activities include: razing of beauty salons, burning a school for girls, and the murder of women for refusing to wear the burqa. It has seized a Taliban-style enclave of 4,000 civilians and several villages near the Iranian border. It is also responsible for ambushing and killing of 42 Kurdish soldiers. Ansar al-Islam is in a state of war with the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK). It was responsible for the assassination in 2001 of a senior official of the Kurdistan Democratic Party (KDP), Franso Hariri, and for the attempted killing of Burhan Salih, head of the PUK-led Iraqi Kurdistan regional government.

Iraq was a haven for the deadly terrorist network headed by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi (http://usinfo.state.gov/regional/nea/disarm/terrorism.htm), an associate and collaborator of Usama bin Laden and his al-Qaida lieutenants. In 2002, Zarqawi was in Baghdad for medical treatment, staying in the capital of Iraq for two months. Also in 2002, an al-Qaida associate bragged that the situation in Iraq was "good," that Baghdad could be transited quickly. Also in 2002, two suspected al-Qaida operatives were arrested crossing from Iraq into Saudi Arabia. They were linked to Zarqawi's Baghdad cell and one of them received training in Afghanistan on how to use cyanide.

Zarqawi's terrorism is not confined to the Middle East. Zarqawi and his network have plotted terrorist actions against countries including France, Britain, Spain, Italy, Germany and Russia.

[WhiteAfricanAmerican]

So Linda, you an operator? :biggrin:

[RightisRightLeftisWrong]

SameKindOfWhiner dont care if its true or not i hate bush whether he was just being plain stupid or just lying i dont care

That statement is completely biased, please give a list of why you hate him and I will read through it all and debate you on it. And I tell you what you can use quotes from Liberals Celebrity morons or even quotes from CBS,NBC and ABC etc hell even throw in Michael Moore propaganda NKOS, go ahead and respond and instead of NewKindOfSoilder change your name into SameKindOfWhiner.

[deek]

i just want to address one thing...

and to do this, i will agree that iraq had no wmd's.

NKOS...have you ever been wrong ever in you life? On a test? On your homework? I will make the bold assumption that you have. now, did you teacher simply check you answer to the math problem wrong? Or did she write LIAR! LIAR! '106' ISN'T THE ANSWER YOU LYING SACK OF CRAP! LIAR!? Because that's what the libs and people like you have been doing all along. You can say bush is wrong all you want, thats fine, but a liar? that doesnt even make sense, to be lying you have to know the truth.

so, you can't say he was lying...unless you are a conspiracy theorist. and if you were a conspiracy theorist, you would also have to agree that all the foreign intelligence was in on the whole deal too, since they backed Bush up. You can't have it both ways, if Bush was lying, then so were the UN, Britain, and Russia.

[IHL]

NKOS is obviously not thinking clearly. His hate for Bush is all he sees. Your example is right, but I'll modify it a bit. Bush wasn't really wrong, he was mislead. He, and a whole host of other people may have been given bad information but Bush wasn't wrong.

NKOS - here is another example. See if you can follow it. If we meet, and I tell you my name is Fred and you introduce me to other people as Fred, you are basing your information on what I told you. Now, let's say my name is really Sam. Did you lie when you told those other people my name was Fred? According to your logic you did. By definition, you did not lie. You based your decision to introduce me as Fred on bad information given to you. You did not lie. Were you mislead? Yes. Did Bush lie? Did Kerry, Kennedy, Pelosi, Clinton, Gore, etc, etc. lie? No - at least not in this case.

Logic obviously doesn't play a large role in your life regarding decision making but you should try it. You might be surprised in what you find.

[WhiteAfricanAmerican]

Here's another example.

Lets say there that it's the Dem National Convention.

Kerry is speaking, and someone phones in a bomb threat.

CIA walk to Kerry tell him what's up, Kerry tells everyone to exit the building because there's a bomb in the building (One would hope he would never do that because a whole stack of people would die, but let's just pretend ok)

So everyone is out, the dogs are brought in, the place is swept, and there is no bomb.

Now, is Kerry a liar?

According to NKOS, he is.

[IHL]

Another great example. I'd love to hear NKOS's reply to that.

[Canilz]

NKOS, go ahead and respond and instead of NewKindOfSoilder change your name into SameKindOfWhiner.
Wow...thats pretty funny...ha


LOOK BACK... on history, nothing much has changed
THOUSANDS... of soldiers of all countries, all marching the same
Every nation's leader says that our side is right
Every nation's leader says the time has come to fight
But they use the common people to settle their scores
IT'S TIME THAT WE REFUSE TO FIGHT IN ANY OF THEIR WARS!

We're looking to start a new army, (that's) too smart to fight, too smart to die
We're looking to start a new army, (that's) too smart to fight, too smart to kill
For you
For you!

JOIN NOW... the ranks of all nations who refuse to go to war
REFUSE... to pull the trigger of a gun for leaders 'round the world
I'd rather fight to spread some tolerance & unity
Than buy into their nationalistic brainwashing
Killing mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, common human beings
Not savages but people, like you, like me!

We're looking to start a new army, (that's) too smart to fight, too smart to die
We're looking to start a new army, (that's) too smart to fight, too smart to kill

For you!

We're looking for a few good men
We're looking for a few good womyn
Who are not afraid to fight against tyranny
But who refuse to fight....with tyranny...tyranny
(refuse!)

We're looking to start a new army, (that's) too smart to fight, too smart to die
We're looking to start a new army, (that's) too smart to fight, too smart to kill

For you
For you!

[Canilz]

[QUOTE=deek]i just want to address one thing...

and to do this, i will agree that iraq had no wmd's.

NKOS...have you ever been wrong ever in you life? On a test? On your homework? I will make the bold assumption that you have. now, did you teacher simply check you answer to the math problem wrong? Or did she write LIAR! LIAR! '106' ISN'T THE ANSWER YOU LYING SACK OF CRAP! LIAR!? Because that's what the libs and people like you have been doing all along. You can say bush is wrong all you want, thats fine, but a liar? that doesnt even make sense, to be lying you have to know the truth.

[QUOTE]
because homework and a test is just as important as going to war...

[WhiteAfricanAmerican]

Yo! IHL

Check Sean's IP and then check NKOS'

I'd wager that if they're not the same, they're pretty damn close

[WhiteAfricanAmerican]

because homework and a test is just as important as going to war...

You're missing the point fool.

A few thing you commie's tend to forget.

1) The responsibility to demonstrate that there were no WMD's was Saddam's.
Thus by not demonstrating this, he is in fact stating that he still had them.

2) In twelve years, Hitler took a nation that had no military back bone and turned it into a vicious and efficient war machine.

3) Given the size of the desert that is Iraq,
Given the relations with the neighboring countries that Saddam had (and don't you dare tell me that he was at odds with his neighbors, because unless you were a Saddam loyalist AND insider, you have no clue as to what those relations were or were not)
Given the size of the Iraqi Military
AND
Given the 12 years Saddam had

A MONKEY COULD MAKE THE WMD's/Program vanish.

So take your head out of your ass.

[thumbelina]

Yo! IHL

Check Sean's IP and then check NKOS'

I'd wager that if they're not the same, they're pretty damn close Sorry, they're not even close. :smile:

[WhiteAfricanAmerican]

flexing those moderator muscles are you thumb?

trying to make me jealous?

Well, it's working :icon_roll

[RightisRightLeftisWrong]

I wish I can be a moderator. :icon_sad: