The 2010 Census - More government intrustion

[IHL]

I find this interesting and a bit disturbing. I recently got a letter informing me the 2010 Census was on it's way. I've always hated the census and found it to be a bit of an intrusion of privacy. Then I started hearing stories. I was wrong. It isn't a bit of an intrusion at all. It is a colossal invasion of privacy. In fact, it is intrusion of the worst kind. It is deceptive and in some cases nearly criminal. And, the best part, almost completely unconstitutional. The liberals among us who hate the constitution anyway, will probably gladly answer the questions on the census and the even worse, the American Community Survey (http://www.census.gov/acs/www/SBasics/What/What1.htm).

The American Community Survey is a hideous invasion of privacy under the guise of the collection of information - well, for the 'common good'. (My words.) It is not the census and has no constitutional grounds for enforcement. The constitution does provide that -
Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Number… The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct.
Basically, the government has the right to count us every ten years. Do we have to answer a bunch of personal questions? Question like - how much money do you make, how many times have you been married, when is the last time you were married, how far do you drive to work, what time to you leave for work, have you ever received food stamps, if so, how much do you receive... and much, much more. Do these questions have anything to do with 'enumeration' of household to apportion taxes? Of course not. Do you have to answer? According to the census bureau, yes you do. According to the Constitution, no you don't.

The U.S. Census Bureau's web site blatantly distorts the law regarding the penalties for not answering. The general consensus of what I've read, which obviously is not at all a legal opinion, is that you are required to tell them how many people reside in your home. That's it. How you go about doing it is another issue.

Following are a couple of interesting opinions. If you find yourself in a position of being required to answer the invasive American Community Survey, seek your own legal advise. As for me, I won't answer it. I see no legal or Constitutional grounds that require it and it is an overt invasion of privacy.

At least you've been warned. Be leery of anyone from the government asking questions.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsDhkPym01k

The following article is long, but well worth the time to read it. Trust me, just read it.

http://www.thepriceofliberty.org/greenslade.htm

[Topiary Lady]

Boy am I glad to see you write this headline, IHL! This has been a real thorn in my side for some time.

Mr. T and I were the unfortunate recepients of the American Community Survey a few years back. I was really pissed over it. I kept calling them and asking about why we would be "required" to answer such a thing, and was assured that we HAD TO ANSWER under penalty from the law if we failed to do so.

Would you like to know what happens if you do answer the questions? See, if you are foolish enough (as I admit that I was) to answer those questions, then you will also receive a phone call (or in our case - TWO phone calls) to verify your answers. As if it's not intrusive enough in the first place, your answers may be challenged via phone calls from the government.

I've been writing about the Census here: http://www.theamericanright.com/forums/showthread.php?11321-The-Census&highlight=census and here: http://www.theamericanright.com/forums/showthread.php?11377-American .

Look, I try my best to learn my way through life. And when I can, I try and pass on some of what I've learned. And what I learned was that I was an idiot for ever answering that survery and believing that I would be in a ton of trouble if I didn't answer it.

Today I did a bit of looking around about the Census. As far as I can see, the worst thing they can do is fine you a hundred bucks should you not answer all of the questions. Answering them falsely will cost you more. But just not answering at all isn't anything huge.

Choose what you want to answer. But do not be intimidated as I was all those years ago. Don't be intimidated by that long survey and don't be intimidated by the ten question form. IHL is correct that this is not even constitutional. Do NOT give them any information that you do not have to. Do NOT give them your phone #.

This is not a partisan issue. This is an issue of government intrusion on the whole. I plan to speak with my neighbors about this and will ask them to consider doing as I will and only answering what is constitutionally required. If we continue to answer personal questions, then we can only blame ourselves when even more information is asked of us.

As I said, I made this awful mistake in the past. It wasn't fun. I was thoroughly pissed when those phone calls came in asking me to verify answers. But again, this was my own fault. My goal now is to ask others to not make the same mistake as I did.

[IHL]

Well you just know a ton of people will be stupid enough, naive enough, or just intimidated enough to answer the questions. It's a shame the census bureau lies to us to intimidate us into answer a bunch of questions they have no right to know. If they come to my door, I will take up a bunch of their time. I will ask them questions, I'll ask them to give me something in writing telling me I have to answer and that I will be fined if I don't. I'll ask to see the part of the constitution that allows this sort of thing. I will be polite and courteous, I will absolutely not allow them in my house or answer any questions over the phone. Ultimately I will tell them how many people reside in my home and that is it.

I wish everyone else would do the same. This is absolutely maddening that this sort of thing is even attempted, much less coerced onto the American people.

[Topiary Lady]

^
That's exactly what we plan to do. I'll place a copy of the Constitution downstairs near the door, should the Census people ring the bell. I'm sure that they will be delighted to meet me and have this conversation. Maybe I'll call a meeting with my neighbors and pass out copies of the Constitution and explain to them that they do not have to answer all of those questions.

Hmm....I've got some idea's now....gosh the government is really going to love me after this one...

[Dr. Madd]

There's some info that's none of their business. They won't get it.

[Dr. Madd]

and remember what Moe Howard said in "No Census, no feeling"... "Remember, We're Census Takers, not ordinary idiots."

[Topiary Lady]

There's some info that's none of their business. They won't get it.

Just answer the question that really is required, which is how many people live in the home. I liked IHL's idea about asking them for something in writing about what the penalty will be for not answering the other questions. I can tell you from my own experience that they absolutly will tell you that you can be arrested and put in prison if you just ask them about this over the phone.

I'm telling you guys - do NOT give them your phone #. They called me two times - TWO, asking me to verify my answers (I suspect that they didn't like some of what I wrote on the form). So basically, once they have your # or any other information on you, they can use it to harrass you and threaten you with legal action. Believe me, I know all about this.

Heh....I'm going to make a little flyer about the Census and give it to every one of my neighbors here. The government is really going to love me after this. I'm pretty sure they will give me an award or something.

Hey TAR Pals, make sure you ask all of your neighbors to only answer the question about how many people live in their home. Let's see what happens if an entire neighborhood declines the government intrusion. I'm dying to find out what happens.

[Topiary Lady]

Hey look! I was just over in the Who's Online section and guess what? We've got someone from Washington DC here reading this nice little thread.

Hey guys, how's it going? :wink1:

[Aurelius]

I should proxy in from China.

[Topiary Lady]

There are certain lurkers who are sort of regulars here. Personally, I consider it an honor when the .govs come in for a little peekie-poo.

I'll bet Washington is really really pleased with IHL's article. They must really love that guy. The site. The Global Warming de-bunking. The gun talk. Census. Yup. Washington DC loves IHL and the TAR Pals. They come here to read all of our awesome posts. :wow:

[scarymary]

Auri is on a roll today. I was really beginning to wonder if he ever had a good laugh.

[Topiary Lady]

Auri's okay. Our Washington lurkers will be happy to see that we've got a lib here on the site who is willing to answer any question, let them confiscate his organs after his death, and all that good stuff. If everyone thought the way that Auri thinks then Obama could actually obtain his Marxist utopia.

Fortunatly for you, my little Aurelius, you've got people like the Conservatives here on TAR who are going to straighten this mess out. Just don't do this to your country again. Now run along and sharpen your #2 pencil. The government needs your phone # so they can give you a call to let you know that you are not going to win the government version of the Publishers Clearing House prize. It was just a trick to get you to give up your information.

[Topiary Lady]

Did you guys read the link at the bottom of IHL's post? It's well worth passing on to all of our friends. I'm going to give it to all of my neighbors and see what they have to say about it. I'd bet that I can get about 90% of the people around here on board with the whole thing.

[Topiary Lady]

Spread da link around:
http://www.thepriceofliberty.org/greenslade.htm (http://www.thepriceofliberty.org/greenslade.htm)

Obama will be very pleased. I'm pretty sure he's going to want to send me some flowers. So far, I'm at 100% in getting my neighbors on board with this idea. The TL can be very convincing! It's only about 60 homes here in this little division. Maybe I'll get lucky and get all of the residents on board with this. Poor Census workers. They just won't know what to do with all of these people over here.

Hey Mr. Government Guy - You're welcome.

Love, TL

Let's see how many people the TAR Pals can convince to sit out this illegal intrusion. Winner gets a prize.

[RIGHT in the middle]

Im on board

[Dr. Madd]

I would, but I was tired last night. Unlike Obama and the left, I work for a living.

[RightisRightLeftisWrong]

hey Right in the middle long time no post.

[i_love_being_so_wicked]

Yeah, we got this letter in the mail too and so did my best friend up in Chicago. I told her to rip it up and throw it away. I offered to bring my Black & Decker cross cutting shredder up there if she wanted to shred that plus a bunch of other personal papers that she wanted to get rid of. I explained to her that these censuses are a huge invasion of privacy because they should already know how many people are born and die each year and that is all they need to know. So she is going to shred hers and throw it just like my father will do with ours as well. I was taught from a young age that the Federal Census was evil, lol. I always try to convince everyone I can not to fill theirs out because I am so strongly against their intrusion in my personal life.

[Topiary Lady]

I have received the Census form. Today I will do exactly as the guy in the article that IHL posted and return the form with a cover letter, using pretty much just that the articles author states. I'll mail it back today and then we will see what happens after that.

It will be interesting to see what happens to each of us who are refusing to answer all of the questions.

*UPDATE*

All done and mailed. One question answered and a polite and simple little note. Ours goes to some office over in Arizona, so I suppose that I'll be on the naughty list before the end of the week. Now we will see who shows up.

[Dr. Madd]

What I'm wondering, is will they attempt to cause panic to get their results like the harpy from DCS did to us over the snake.

[Topiary Lady]

They are not going to try and cause panic. They are going to try and intimidate people.

I just answered the one question and sent the letter saying that I would be answeing no others. They really shouldn't even send anyone over here because I already gave the explanation. We decided that we just won't answer the door if someone that we don't know comes here. If they want to come by every day then that's fine. I still won't answer the door.

I am just done with all of the nonsense from the government.

[scarymary]

So TL, you are saying that you sent a cover letter with your form. Was this the information you used in your cover letter?:


When I receive the American Community Survey form, I will return it with a cover letter. The letter will simply state that since the Constitution established a federal government of limited enumerated powers and that document does not grant them the general power to request the information, I am under no constitutional obligation to provide it.

[Topiary Lady]

It was a different part of the article that I used. It was just a very short statement that I used for the letter and I stapled it on to the Census form. I did answer the one question about the number of people who live in my home and then let the note explain why I was not answering the rest.

Seems reasonable. Now we shall see what happens next.

[Dr. Madd]

They are not going to try and cause panic. They are going to try and intimidate people.

I just answered the one question and sent the letter saying that I would be answeing no others. They really shouldn't even send anyone over here because I already gave the explanation. We decided that we just won't answer the door if someone that we don't know comes here. If they want to come by every day then that's fine. I still won't answer the door.

I am just done with all of the nonsense from the government.

Exactly what that harpy did. Had the baby been home, I'd have told her to go pound pavement.

[RightisRightLeftisWrong]

I've been getting a couple of these census crap stuff one at my old house in louisiana one at the apartment here in California and one at the new house so if we even filled all thoes out wouldn't that not be accurate?