Atheists don't get it

[grant]

:biggrin:

When a Christian posts on a site, atheists attack like tigers set loose.

On one site, atheists continue to claim Christians are duped by suspicions.

What atheists don't get is that their philosophy ends with mortals rotting. Therefore, if there is nothing but rot at the end, why bother with those caught up in suspicions?

I continually point out to atheists that they would be smart to leave the Christains to their illusions instead of wasting time trying to convert Christians to atheism.

Rot is rot. We all rot in the close. Atheists and Christians have the same exit. Therefore, if that is true, as atheists claim, then leave each mortal to his own philosophy.

Atheists don't get it, though. They badger, curse, stomp and scream against Christians instead of leaving us to our own mists of dream making.

I have concluded that the spirit of antichrist in atheists drives them to their own waste, just as Beelzebub would spur them on -- to waste rather than produce something meaningful.

:icon_idea

[BloodyWill]

And many Christians badger, curse, stomp and scream against Atheists, Agnostics, and other Christians instead of leaving them to their own dream making.

Your post goes both ways. What you accuse the Atheists and Agnostics of doing-- that is, trying to push their beliefs onto others-- Christians are equally guilty of. Athiests and Agnostics do it in order to "open people's eyes to the fact they're wasting their time." Christians do it in order to "save people from the eternal damnation of hell."

As a Christian, will you stop telling non-believers about God? No, that goes against what is taught to all Christians.

Perhaps, in the end, it is Satan who is pushing some "religious" people, like the Rev. Falwell, to spout off religious nonsense (gays and lesbians and women working were the cause of 9/11, for example) in order to push the Athiests and Agnostics even further away.

[OmegaRed]

Perhaps, in the end, it is Satan who is pushing some "religious" people, like the Rev. Falwell, to spout off religious nonsense (gays and lesbians and women working were the cause of 9/11, for example) in order to push the Athiests and Agnostics even further away.

Actually, your example of 9/11 is why the terrorist did attack us. They attacked us because of the way we live our lives. In the Middle East being homosexual is a crime punished by death. Women hardly work over there. There is a million more examples but since you brought up those two, I just wanted to commit on them. I have no religious beliefs....But I just wanted to point out that we were attacked for the way we live and what we accept in America.

[grant]

My point was not that Christians don't try to convert others.

My point was that atheists who believe that the end is rot waste their time with illusionists. If the atheists followed their own intelligence to its logical conclusion of "nothing but rot at the end of earthly existence," they would not bother converting anybody but just leave all mortals to whatever.

You missed the point of my post. Read it again and get the point.

[FightinDaMan]

Of course there is a point. Christians convert others to save them at the end; atheists convert others to save them now. The motive is different (saving souls versus enlightenment/saving time) but both Christians and Atheists have a reason for trying to dispel what they view as false beliefs in others.

[grant]

Atheists, holding to nothing is lasting, should save their energies in not attempting to save Christians from illusions. That's the point.

Atheists look on life as a huge zero. Then leave those who want to add to the zero whatever they want to add to the zero.

But a logical atheist who intends on living and let live would logically leave illusionists to their own illusions. It just doesn't make sense to work so hard to convert illusionists away from their illusions if it's all a joke in the end.

[FightinDaMan]

Why must atheists be content to live and let live? Look at it this way, if life is a zero in the end, why should you spend your precious time praying to a god that doesn't exist? Perhaps that is the logic which spurs atheists to try to change the ways of others.

Just for the record, since you are new, I am content to live and let live, but not an atheist.

[grant]

If I were atheist, I would be so courteous to all thought patterns and leave them at that.

I I were atheist, concluding that all ends with nothing, I would regard mortals with the freedom of thought to think whatever.

If some concluded that deity is a glob of green paint, then so what?

If other concluded that there is no deity but one's imaginative deity, then let it be.

I have dialogued with atheists for half a century and found them to be particularly determined to change my mind. I continually ask them to leave me to my own illusions, that is, what they consider illusions. They won't do that.

Because I am a Chrsitian who believes the Bible as divine inspiration, I believe that these atheists with whom I dialogue are moved upon by the demonic presence within them. That demonic presence is real and therefore must express itself, hence the continuing dialogue from atheist to me, a Christian.

If there were not demonic presence in the atheist, then that vacuum would be content to leave all religious persons alone to their illusions.

[FightinDaMan]

Well, if that's what you believe, then I doubt I'm gonna change your mind.

[grant]

Yes, that's what I believe and I believe that it is logical.

The logic begins with atheists concluding that this existence is nothing in the end. Therefore, if it is nothing, nothing matters.

Nothing matters to the point of debating about anything for all debate ends in nothing.

All mind ends in nothing.

All existence ends in nothing.

All verbal exchange ends in nothing.

In the meantime, we live in a temporary sphere which ends in nothing.

That is the classic atheist's creed: this existence is nothing in the end.

Therefore, with that as the classic atheist creed, any attempt at convincing another mortal about religion is folly. Consequently, if I were an atheist holding to the classic creed of a non-believer, I would not fall for the waste of time in convincing anyone of anything.

Pure logic for an atheist is to leave each mortal to his own conclusions about anything religious. End the end it all disappears into nothing.

[FightinDaMan]

We've both made logical arguments. As a former atheist myself I can certainly understand the mindset that leads some to try to convert others to atheism, although I was never really big on that myself.

[grant]

You say that you were once involved in trying to convert persons to atheism.

And I can see why you did that.

My point at the outset was to state that atheists who attempt to convince others of atheism have yet to follow through with their own basic postulate. Those atheists still have in their heads that there is really something more than nothing to existence, hence they try to convince others of something. But for those debating atheists something is truly the ultimate illusion. There is no such existence as "something."

But a pure atheist holding to pure logic of atheism agrees that there is absolutely nothing to this existence, that is, nothing that lasts. It all ends, that is, disappears into nothing. Zero equals zero. Nothing is the truth of this existence. Nothing is all there is. Nothing is the ultimate. There is no zenith other than nothingness.

Those atheists who spend time and energy trying to convince anyone of anything have yet to get the point of nothing in the end. Again, that's my thesis for this post. Atheists just don't get it -- that is, they don't get it that there is nothing but nothing according to pure atheism.

By atheists arguing and debating anything philosophical / religious, they actually give themselves away in thinking that there's actually something worth debating when in the end there is nothing worth debating.

One more time: my point of this post is that most atheists have not followed their basic postulate to its logical final conclusion. If they did, they would humor believers by remaining silent, for in the end nothing is nothing.

[FightinDaMan]

I said I wasn't involved in trying to convert people.

Also, I would bet that there are about as many pure atheists holding to pure logic of atheism as there are pure christians holding to pure logic of Christianity, not many.

[grant]

I said I wasn't involved in trying to convert people.

Also, I would bet that there are about as many pure atheists holding to pure logic of atheism as there are pure christians holding to pure logic of Christianity, not many.
I got the point that you personally did not try to convert anyone to atheism.

As for Christians, their very place in the world is to convert lovingly persons to Christian belief.

That is where any parallel between atheists and Christians breaks down totally.

Christians were told by Jesus to go tell the world the gospel -- salvation through His loving sacrifice upon Calvary. That mandates Christians, in love and manners, to tell others of the gospel -- the good news of saving grace.

For persons who reject that message, that is their choice and right. For persons who accept the message, that is their choice.

But there is no philosophical parallel between atheist and Christian when it comes to propagating their postulates.

Atheists have nothing but nothing to tell.

Christians believe they have the salvation message and therefore are under commission by Christ to share that message -- but it must be done in love and manners otherwise it contradicts the Spirit of Christ.

[grant]

Must run some errrands and therefore if you reply further, the reason for the delay on my part is due to being interrupted.

[DefacedCreation]

I would have to say that really, the main reason for an Atheist (like myself) to argue about religion or philosophy is for the pure sake of it. Arguing and debating is fun, so if somebody decides to tell me about their religion, then I will argue my point of view. Otherwise, I leave people to their faith, honestly not caring what they believe.

It's just like political debate. (Mostly against a liberal). No matter how you present your argument, neither side will truly be swayed towards the other's stance. Everybody will argue their point of view, the only problem is that neither side will care about the others' views.

[grant]

gotcha.

if it's for fun. then so be it. makes sense if it's just for fun. go for it.

[IHL]

It has been my experience that many, many more Christians have tried to convert me to Christianity or a belief in a God, than have Atheists tried to convince me there is not a god. As a matter of fact, I have never had an Atheist try to sway my belief or lack of belief one way or another. I can't say the same thing for those that belief in God.

So when it comes right down to it, it has been my experience that believers have tried to convince me of their beliefs much more than non-believers. So I think it's safe to say that Christians are more guilty of this than Atheists, as a general rule.

Personally, I think your belief in God is not a choice. I think it just is. Either you believe or you don't. Your upbringing, events in your life, all shape your belief system. It is for this reason that people's minds are not changed by mere debate. If you believe, I can't just suddenly talk you into not believing. If you don't believe, you can't just talk me into believing. It takes much more than that, i.e, it's not a choice.

Personally, I don't really care what people believe. If you believe and it works for you, then I think that is fine. If you don't believe and are happy in that, then that is equally fine. I typically don't bebate the issue unless I know the people well and are comfortable with them. This issue can quickly turn ugly as people hold their beliefs very personally.

[believer]

I am most disturbed by recent attacks on Christ's followers as "extremist intolerant right wing haters". Call God intolerant. Is someone by proxy, automatically a conservative wacko if they profess their belief in Christ? Does this mean that liberals want their representative party associated with atheism? Is it official now? Guess not. Why's that?
At least I can stand for what I believe in, at least I believe in something and that something doesnt reek of self-centered, childish, "what's in it for me" moral decadence or hypocracy. Let the atheists continue to polarize and rant with their divisive outrages...it served George W just fine, last election!

[OmegaRed]

For all the atheists out there...........

What do you belive in?

To be an atheist you have to believe in something, not a god of some type, but there has to be a system of beliefs in order to be atheist. Remember being atheist is not just about denying the existence of religion or gods. There is a lot more to being an antheist!

I am just curious.........I am not starting an argument



Vanz Kant Danz

[Fenris6644]

Some of us Atheists vote Republican too. There are bigger fish to fry. No need to bash people who are voting for the Right side ;)

[IHL]

Atheists believe in a lot of things, just not in a God that would allow all of the injustices in the world.

I personally don't need to feel like someone is constantly watching over me or that I will live forever. Some people can't stand the thought of simply being plant food after they die. Some people need to feel like there is something waiting for them "on the other side". That's great if you believe that. Seriously, I think if you believe that and it gets you through the day then I'm genuinely happy for you. I just don't need it. I don't believe it but it's not that I wouldn't like something like that. I think it is a great idea and I can see how it would make people be content. I just don't believe it is the case. I'm not happy I don't believe it. Part of me wishes I did think it was true. I can't help it - I just don't buy it. As I've stated before, I don't think believing or not believing is a choice we can make.

[DefacedCreation]

Atheists believe in a lot of things, just not in a God that would allow all of the injustices in the world.

I personally don't need to feel like someone is constantly watching over me or that I will live forever. Some people can't stand the thought of simply being plant food after they die. Some people need to feel like there is something waiting for them "on the other side". That's great if you believe that. Seriously, I think if you believe that and it gets you through the day then I'm genuinely happy for you. I just don't need it. I don't believe it but it's not that I wouldn't like something like that. I think it is a great idea and I can see how it would make people be content. I just don't believe it is the case. I'm not happy I don't believe it. Part of me wishes I did think it was true. I can't help it - I just don't buy it. As I've stated before, I don't think believing or not believing is a choice we can make.

I agree with IHL, and would like to add that Atheists believe in most of the same ideals that others believe. Things like murder and theft are accepted as evils in almost all societies(Can't say much about the muslim faith though) :icon_wink . We just don't believe that we must be tied down while living on this earth with certain laws that are applied in other cultures.

[LiberalsAreBabyKillers!]

BW lokk at it this way. To a christian like myself, a fellow christian is going to go to heaven and a non-beliver will go to hell. Therefore, the christians try to convert people for their own good. However, an atheist has no incentive whatsoever to convert people, because to them, they will meet the same fate, regardless of religion.

[riverman]

I think that the atheist philosophy can be summed up in the phrase- there are no atheists in foxholes .
Go ahead an be atheist if you choose. I just think atheism is the fundamental belief that humans are not only themsleves the height of creation but the ultimate goal of creation.
To think yourself smarter than God is to give yourself way too much credit in my opinion.

if you think about all that ever was or ever will be in the totality of the universe and the very earth you live on and you come to the conclusion in your own mind that there is no cause or reason for anything and that all this stuff that is in the world around us is here just by some molecular coincidence then I beleive you are in effect denying your very existence. Chance is not a very good designer nor is it a very perpetuating engineer.
but what do I know ? I am just a gun totin' Bible thumpin' hick- sorry tho I don't have a pick up truck-yet.