Republicans Cave

[IHL]

The Republicans have let us all down in the recent "compromise (http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/05/24/judicial.nominees/index.html)" made with the Democrats. The Republicans have let the minority call the shots. I've always said that anything that has John McCain's fingerprints on it is suspect - reference McCain-Feingold Finance Reform. It's an abomination. McCain was one of the weak kneed Republicans (and I struggle to call McCain a Republican) who didn't have the guts to stand up for what is right and hold the Democrats feet to the fire. Make no mistake - the Republicans let us all down by kowtowing to the Democrats who started this little war by abusing the filibuster option. If the Republicans can not get their judges confirmed when we are in the majority, do you honestly believe it will happen if the liberals ever get in charge again? Do you think for one minute the liberals would compromise with us unless it was their only option? If you do, think again. The Democrats only compromised when they realized their only other choice was to lose everything.

It's too bad to see a handful of alleged Republicans and the minority party call the shots on this issue. The Democrats say they will only use the filibuster option on "extreme cases", yet there is no condition to describe exactly what constitutes and extreme case. Being conservative is an extreme enough case for most of them. This issue won't die yet, at least I hope not. With any luck, people will vote out people like McCain and Olympia Snow who consistently side with liberals. Just look at their record.

[redwinger13]

.....funeral persuasion music.........

IHL, your post is so-so true. It is a sad day for being a conservative. Oh why did we give these egotisical manics more power? I question every conservative who sided w/ the devil on this debate. The liberals should not even have a choice in the matter. I am sure if someone gave a bottle of Jack Daniels to Uncle Teddy Kennedy he would shut up and realize, we the consevatives did win the White House, did win the Senate, and did win the House. His lunatic friends as in "Crybaby" Boxer, "I think gambling should be illegal" Reid have a hard time w/ that concept. I want to cry....or maybe send the jack a$$es to a far away island....



.....funeral persuasion music.........

[All American Kid]

We all wanted the nominations to go forward and now they are. So why be upset. Changing the override vote to 51 is not a minor change otherwise they wouldn't have called it the "nuclear option". We have a gauranteed pass on three judges and now have what two left in question.

Give senators like Liberman some credit. They didn't get wishy-washy with their stance on Iraq. They may not have like everything that happened but they stood by thier yes vote. I do however agree that "extreme" is broad. But at the very least if those senators vote for a filibuster they will have to answer spefically to the reason behind their vote. We'll see how this plays out soon enough.

Me myself I'm glad that the nuclear option was avoided. One day we may have the Hildabeast in office with 51 minoins to pass her judges through. Scary stuff.

[chi1088]

I sense a division in the Republican party. Democrats, the time to capitalize is now.

[Wadi66]

I sense a division in the Republican party. Democrats, the time to capitalize is now.LOL Republicans have always been more independently minded. That's another reason why Democrats can get so much socialist agenda nonsense thru. Democrats on the other hand, won't allow independent thinking. Not if you want to get ahead that is. Criticize a democrat in office and you'll be shown the door.

[chi1088]

'08 Wadi...'08

[Wadi66]

'08 Wadi...'08And your point is??????

[All American Kid]

I sense a division in the Republican party.

I respectfully disagree. Its just that republicans have a bigger tent. I will not go into this here as to stay on the topic.

I believe the media is making a big hoop-la over this as a loss for republicans or a division as they always, do when in fact, just as many Democrats where in that meeting as republicans.

[chi1088]

I respectfully disagree. Its just that republicans have a bigger tent. I will not go into this here as to stay on the topic.

I believe the media is making a big hoop-la over this as a loss for republicans or a division as they always, do when in fact, just as many Democrats where in that meeting as republicans.

The Democrats are not responsible for starting this messy deal with the nuclear option. And apparently der forum führer, IHL, is upset with these independently minded Republicans.

[Wadi66]

The Democrats are not responsible for starting this messy deal with the nuclear option. They aren't? Then who is and why? Your take on this should prove interesting.

[chi1088]

They aren't? Then who is and why? Your take on this should prove interesting.

The Republicans are responsible. What a poor time to bring up getting rid of the filibuster. We are "at war". Even though "Mission Accomplished", we are still fighting for peace in Iraq aka are at war. We should not be worrying about dumb stuff like getting rid of the filibuster so that certain judges can make it to the Supreme Court. We should be more worried about issues that affect all of the American people. Poverty is a huge issue for many Americans right now. Tackle that one before bickering about something that's been working just fine since the 1850s.

Filibuster does mean "to pirate". Democrats like Huey Long and Strom Thurmond have used this tool well in past years. They have effectively prevented government from working properly. With cloture, however, I do not think it's out of line to let certain politicians utilize the filibuster. Cloture is good enough and therefore, the filibuster does not need to be removed.

[redwinger13]

You have filibuster all wrong in your liberal mind. Filibuster means to change the rules as you go along. Its the liberal fault because they have no power and should have no power. So they cry filibuster....but what is amazing is that if Gore or Kerry won the election, the liberals would not call a filibuster...ever for the same canidates that they are calling for a filibuster on today

[chi1088]

You have filibuster all wrong in your liberal mind. Filibuster means to change the rules as you go along. Its the liberal fault because they have no power and should have no power. So they cry filibuster....but what is amazing is that if Gore or Kerry won the election, the liberals would not call a filibuster...ever for the same canidates that they are calling for a filibuster on today

Pretty sure I know what I am talking about since I am going off of government posted information. (SEE HERE (http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/common/briefing/Filibuster_Cloture.htm))

And duh, uh what'd'ya tryin' to prove with that statement about Gore or Kerry winning? Of course a filibuster wouldn't have happened cause then they could push for their own judges. But because our country is so polarized, there is no doubt in my mind that the Republicans would have threatened to filibuster like the Democrats.

[Wadi66]

The Republicans are responsible.So the Democrats abusing the filibuster in no way provoked Republicans to consider such measures as the nuclear option? They did it all on their own without provocation. Hmmmm, interesting thought although I totally disagree.


What a poor time to bring up getting rid of the filibuster. No time is a good time for getting rid of filibuster.


We should not be worrying about dumb stuff like getting rid of the filibuster so that certain judges can make it to the Supreme Court. We should be more worried about issues that affect all of the American people. You have got to be kidding me. The fact that these conservative judges affect every American in general is exactly WHY the democrats were opposed to them.


Democrats like Huey Long and Strom Thurmond have used this tool well in past years. They have effectively prevented government from working properly.This sounds like you're saying democrats prevent government from working properly. Is that what you meant to say?


With cloture, however, I do not think it's out of line to let certain politicians utilize the filibuster. Cloture is good enough and therefore, the filibuster does not need to be removed.Using the filibuster is one thing, abusing it is another.

[All American Kid]

The Democrats are not responsible for starting this messy deal with the nuclear option.

Really? If the Democrats had not filibustered for the last what 4 yrs would the Republicans would have had to resort to such measures? I can maybe see holding out until the Prez elections as a very agressive strategy, but now they would try to hold everything up for another 4 yrs. Come on, lets be resonable.

BTW the final vote to move for a final vote for Owen was 81-18. What! 81-18! I thought there was a rip on the conservative side! All this time Dems have been screaming that the filibuster is to hear the minority voice and come to find out that that vioce was of only 18 senators out of 99!!! What 18.18% I don't think our founding fathers wanted this country's busness to be held up for a 18% minority. Reid must have been doing some serious arm twisting probally more like bullying. 18 thats not even half of the democratic Senators. Once agian proof that the Democratic party has been hijacked by the extreme elements.

[chi1088]

Wadi, how do you abuse a filibuster? What's the difference between abusing and using? Is there a definitive difference?

[chi1088]

BTW the final vote to move for a final vote for Owen was 81-18. What! 81-18! I thought there was a rip on the conservative side! All this time Dems have been screaming that the filibuster is to hear the minority voice and come to find out that that vioce was of only 18 senators out of 99!!! What 18.18% I don't think our founding fathers wanted this country's busness to be held up for a 18% minority. Reid must have been doing some serious arm twisting probally more like bullying. 18 thats not even half of the democratic Senators. Once agian proof that the Democratic party has been hijacked by the extreme elements.

That percentage is between 1/5 and 1/6 of the Senate. One person didn't vote it appears so the fractions are a little less, but that fraction represents about 10 or more states. I think our founding fathers would've thought that 10 or more states are worth listening to. And if those states don't like what their senators are doing, it's time for them to take care of the people they elected and work to make sure they aren't reelected next time around. That minority IS worth listening to. It's not worth it to you because you disagree with them.

[Count Rugen]

.....funeral persuasion music.........

IHL, your post is so-so true. It is a sad day for being a conservative. Oh why did we give these egotisical manics more power? I question every conservative who sided w/ the devil on this debate. The liberals should not even have a choice in the matter. I am sure if someone gave a bottle of Jack Daniels to Uncle Teddy Kennedy he would shut up and realize, we the consevatives did win the White House, did win the Senate, and did win the House. His lunatic friends as in "Crybaby" Boxer, "I think gambling should be illegal" Reid have a hard time w/ that concept. I want to cry....or maybe send the jack a$$es to a far away island....



.....funeral persuasion music.........
Did you mean "funeral procession"?

[All American Kid]

I think our founding fathers would've thought that 10 or more states are worth listening to. And if those states don't like what their senators are doing, it's time for them to take care of the people they elected and work to make sure they aren't reelected next time

Yes we've been lisening for 4 yrs now how much more time do you propose we listen? I serouisly doubt that Mass. would get rid of Ted Kennedy no matter what. It maybe 10 states that have senators that oppose this but heck you could probally fit Rhode Island, Massachusetts and Deleware with a couple more in the state of Texas. Not that those states are not important, the point is that there is a small section of America that wants the power over the majority. All this fussing from the minority to be heard have they themselves considered to listen to majority lately?

Fact remains is that the minority that has held up nominations are not only the minority in the senate but also a minority in thier own party.

[Wadi66]

Wadi, how do you abuse a filibuster? What's the difference between abusing and using? Is there a definitive difference?Chi in the first place the filibuster is generally used to buy a LITTLE more time before requiring members to cast their votes. The Filibuster has never before been invoked for judicial nominees. The abuse comes from using up excessive time on one issue or in this case, on a few nominees. Democrats moved filibustering from buying a little more time, to obstructing legislative action.

I almost have to laugh to watch Capital Hill these days. Once again, the Democrats could write the play book on how to play dirty. Anyone who believes the democrats are just trying to protect the interests of the minority are being very idealistic in their views of the democrats. Believe it if you want Chi. Believe it if it makes you feel warm and fuzzy, I know better.

[deek]

also, to fillibuster, you used to have to stand and speak the entire time. you couldnt go to the bathroom or the fillibuster was over, you couldnt sit down or the fillibuster was over.

remember the movie, Mr. Smith Goes to Washington ?

this is the cheapest fillibuster ive ever seen, they arent even fillibustering, they are just saying "fillibuster" and that apparently counts. the fillibuster was technically over a long long time ago.

[IHL]

The Democrats are not responsible for starting this messy deal with the nuclear option Really? So the Republicans starting talking about the constitutional option just because they felt like it. I thought you were smarter than that Chi. This option is a direct result of the abuse by the Democrats. This ploy hadn't been used in 200 years prior to this groups of libs starting this little baby tantrum called the fillibuster. To use it sparingly is one thing, but to use it on virtually every appointment like the Democrats were doing is abuse. That's the difference.

This is a ploy by the minority, your party, trying to stop the whole game because they didn't like who was playing. So don't give me that "count every vote" crap ever again. They wouldn't even let a vote happen. You like that? You think that is the way things should be. And then look at what happens when they did have the vote. The candidates got bipartisan support except for the far left.

Yeah the liberals are all about counting the votes until they see they can't win - then they want to stop the whole elections. And you are saying this is the Republicans fault? Your are out of touch.

[short circut]

this isnt nesicarily a bad thing. THink about it this way. if the conservatives lose control of the house and senate at any time in the future then they will still have a way to fight the liberal idiocy.

[deek]

the problem is...conservatives are reasonable, and most likely wouldnt do anything this stupid.

[chi1088]

Chi in the first place the filibuster is generally used to buy a LITTLE more time before requiring members to cast their votes. The Filibuster has never before been invoked for judicial nominees. The abuse comes from using up excessive time on one issue or in this case, on a few nominees. Democrats moved filibustering from buying a little more time, to obstructing legislative action.

I almost have to laugh to watch Capital Hill these days. Once again, the Democrats could write the play book on how to play dirty. Anyone who believes the democrats are just trying to protect the interests of the minority are being very idealistic in their views of the democrats. Believe it if you want Chi. Believe it if it makes you feel warm and fuzzy, I know better.
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Sorry, that last line of your post is so full of shit. You'll probably remove this post anyways so why begin to mask my feelings. I'll let the CENSORSHIP SQUAD themselves take away free speech. Take it. Lol...

No, sorry... the vote was 81-18 to end debate. So doesn't that mean they are going to vote on this Priscilla Owen? Ya, you're getting what you want. After four years, Dems have come to their senses as I think they should. Fours years later, it's about time some side compromises. Republicans aren't going to try to push new judges. I guess Dems just understand America right now a little bit better than Republicans. That's why they realized we can't have this gridlock anymore.

Hey you want to hear a joke? FRIST in '08 haha... that's hilarious.