Republicans Cave

[Wadi66]

I think some Democrats went looking for a way out. They're getting flak from home and the time to start preparing for the next election is coming up. But party rules won't let them diviate much and they have to save face. Republicans didn't want to launch the nuclear option any more than the Democrats wanted them to, but the threat created a division within the democratic party that was needed to move forward.

[IHL]

Chi1088 - First of all there is no free speech here. I've had this debate before so I won't drudge it up again but suffice it to say if you or anyone else here thinks this is a free speech site and you have the right to say whatever you want, you are mistaken. Therefore your comment about the censorship squad is as ridiculous as the rest of your arguments.


I guess Dems just understand America right now a little bit better than Republicans. OK, you're kidding right? I mean, not even you are naive enough to really believe this. What could you possibly base a statement like this on? That fact that the Democrats have been consistently losing elected offices for the last 10 years? Is that an indicator of the Democrats understanding America? You're losing it Chi. You made some sense a while back but now when your true liberal feelings come out, you sound as incoherent as Ted Kennedy and Barbara Boxer.

[chi1088]

Yea, I'm trying to be serious with you but some of what you're saying is so funny I just have to treat it like a joke. Ok...alright...I'm coming back to center. What were we talking about again? We were talking about how the Republicans are caving. Yep, I can't disagree with that. Stem cell research bills and this nuclear option plus more situations to come. Yep, the dividing begins now. McCain and friends go this way and then Frist and his religious conservative friends go the other direction. I like McCain and friends so I personally am hoping they prevail.

[chi1088]

Your are out of touch.

That reminds me of "Is our children learning?".

[IHL]

Oh, just like you Chi to capitalize on a spelling oversight. I think if you've read my posts, most people will know that I actually do know the difference between you, your, and you're, and even the difference between to, two, and too. So your little jab appears to me as only a sign of weakness.

[chi1088]

Actually, it wasn't even a jab at you. I just read it and thought of the Bush quote. So I posted it kind of like RLord posted the lyrics to the Simple Man song. I had an impulse that's all. Nothing against you.

[Former_Liberal]

I am a little iffy on this filibuster stuff. If you follow the constitution, there is no filibuster. Period. Advice and consent are mentioned and majority rules and if that is true, 51 votes is more than 49. Also, there is nothing in the constitution that grants minorities powers on the filibuster. So if you are a follower of the constitution, there is no filibuster period. I would also like to mention that the filibuster has been used to revoke civil rights acts by my former party, the Democrats "hence the nickname used by some blacks slave-o-crats". Also, Bush has the lowest percentage rate of getting his judges approved at I think 53%. So I always love the line that Republicans move backwards "which I used to say" when it is the Dems that are stalling the judges and other necessary issues. Especially since there are more pressing issues such as imigration and social security. Bob Dole had wrote an article on this specific thing that mentioned that he and his Republican collegues got Clinton judges through even though they did not think they were worthy to serve the bench. Now on the other hand, Republicans will not always be in power. Even though they have never filibustered appelete court judges, you may have a judged nominated that may be totally against the constitution like Ruth Bader Ginsburg. It is an atrocity she is sitting on the bench. Under a circumstance like her, I think wise is an understatement on envoking the filibuster. That is my two cents.

[Wadi66]

Welcome Former_Liberal

Its nice to see another former liberal in here who believes in adhering to the Constitution.

What brought you around and when?

[Bumblebee]

The Republicans had their chance to eliminate the judicial filibuster. Big mistake. I believe the Democrats won on this one and it legitimized the judicial filibuster. A judicial nominee has never before been denied the appointment to the court by Senate filibuster. If John McCain ever wanted to run for president in 2008, I believe he now won't be nominated. I am pretty mad at those 7 Republicans. There was no deal to make, we are the majority, and we should have grabbed at the chance to end the filibuster now. We need all the conservative judges now more then ever before.

[Former_Liberal]

I would have to say my converstion was something gradual. Everyone is born a liberal. When I was young, I believed in liberal ideals such as putting dasies instead of bullets in guns, shutting down industrial companies because they pollute the air, having the rich pay for the poor, having the United States pay for poor countries, raising minimum wage, blame the U.S. first, etc. Of course public schools fueld these ideologues. I would have to say life after highschool is when things started to change. I would work my ass off to pay for my car and other necessities. I probably worked 50 hours a week. My friend on the other hand demanded that his parents pay for his car. So here I am working my ass off paying for my stuff and my lazy friend has his parents pay for his thing. The whole "rich" and "poor" thing switched to "hard-working" and "laziness". I guess my impression of welfare really changed. Then when I had to move out and get an appartment, I really had a low opinion of welfare. Then I started to talk to some of my co-workers who are conservative and they made a lot of sense while my liberal co-workers sounded a little kooky. It seemed like the more my conservative co-workers defended America, the more my liberal co-workers got pissed off. Then 9/11 happened. That was probably one of the more impressionable moments. I guess I was struck with patriotism. This "blame-America-first" ideal quickly drained out of me. Finally, the war in Iraq is what completely shut me off to liberalism. I am exremely shocked that people are against liberating Iraqis, wishing Sadaam was in power and supporting Sadaam, and all of this anti-Bush shananigans that go on. I know Democrat presidents have gotten negative publicity, but for someone to stand in front of the White House to blow himself up in hopes of hurting Bush is just apauling. There were many more steps that are involved with my conversion, but these are some of the highlights. I am very proud and fortunate for my new found conservatism.

[All American Kid]

The Republicans had their chance to eliminate the judicial filibuster. Big mistake. I believe the Democrats won on this one and it legitimized the judicial filibuster. A judicial nominee has never before been denied the appointment to the court by Senate filibuster. If John McCain ever wanted to run for president in 2008, I believe he now won't be nominated. I am pretty mad at those 7 Republicans. There was no deal to make, we are the majority, and we should have grabbed at the chance to end the filibuster now. We need all the conservative judges now more then ever before.

I thought it would have been risky. Who knows what Spector would have voted and what if we didn't get the 50 votes needed the Dems would have thrown parade from Boston to New York. This may have save us some embarassment. Nevertheless, the nuclear option is not dead. We should probally get through the 2006 Senate races and use the dems filibustering tactics to maybe get in a couple more R senators then we will definatally have the 50+ votes to change senate rules if need be.

I'll also say this agian. Would you be comfortable with Hillary in office with 51 Dem. senators with senate rules allowing those 51 to break a filibuster. It is possible that could happen in the near future. scary thought huh? --AAK

[Bumblebee]

I thought it would have been risky. Who knows what Spector would have voted and what if we didn't get the 50 votes needed the Dems would have thrown parade from Boston to New York. This may have save us some embarassment. Nevertheless, the nuclear option is not dead. We should probally get through the 2006 Senate races and use the dems filibustering tactics to maybe get in a couple more R senators then we will definatally have the 50+ votes to change senate rules if need be.

I'll also say this agian. Would you be comfortable with Hillary in office with 51 Dem. senators with senate rules allowing those 51 to break a filibuster. It is possible that could happen in the near future. scary thought huh? --AAK
What if, what if...reality is today, pessimism is tomorrow. Do what we can get done today, tomorrow will take care of itself. Remember what if.....is pessimism.

[All American Kid]

Well I guess I did I use the words "what if". However I was pointing out some valid stratagies to think about. Which I think is reasonable.

We are getting what we need to get done today, the judges are getting through the senate. There is always more than one way to skin a cat. So why play our hand at this time? Just because you have a nuclear option it doesn't mean that it is best to use it.

I know being held up is frustrating. With that said, remember the Dems paid a price for their pettyness in 04 and will do so agian in 06. That my freind is the bigger picture --AAK

[Bumblebee]

Pretty sure I know what I am talking about since I am going off of government posted information. (SEE HERE (http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/common/briefing/Filibuster_Cloture.htm))

And duh, uh what'd'ya tryin' to prove with that statement about Gore or Kerry winning? Of course a filibuster wouldn't have happened cause then they could push for their own judges. But because our country is so polarized, there is no doubt in my mind that the Republicans would have threatened to filibuster like the Democrats.

Filibusters were never used on judicial nominees ever before, until the Democrats decided to change rules. Read your own link, it doesn't say anything about filibusters on 'judicial nominees.'

[Bumblebee]

Well I guess I did I use the words "what if". However I was pointing out some valid stratagies to think about. Which I think is reasonable.

We are getting what we need to get done today, the judges are getting through the senate. There is always more than one way to skin a cat. So why play our hand at this time? Just because you have a nuclear option it doesn't mean that it is best to use it.

I know being held up is frustrating. With that said, remember the Dems paid a price for their pettyness in 04 and will do so agian in 06. That my freind is the bigger picture --AAK
I don't believe that 'deal' those 14 senators made will hold up. You wait and see...the senate Democrats will use different words or make up different rules to block judicial nominees, or sense, they are so shameless, go back on their word. I hope I'm wrong, but the the Dems are so treacherous. They even lie to their own party. They really believe the people are so dumb.

[All American Kid]

I don't believe that 'deal' those 14 senators made will hold up. You wait and see...the senate Democrats will use different words or make up different rules to block judicial nominees, or sense, they are so shameless, go back on their word. I hope I'm wrong, but the the Dems are so treacherous. They even lie to their own party. They really believe the people are so dumb.

You are so right with most of this. The Dems will most definatally try to hold up progress agian. The way they didn't filibustered Bolton's nomination but yacked like the windbags they are. Sure did fit the definition of filibuster. No doubt they will filibuster again but now they will have to show why they think that that instance is an extreme case.

The one part I do disagree is that people are dumb how else did Kerry get 48% of the vote. Those people need this spelled out for them.

Maybe your right, that deal may not hold up but I believe it puts the repulicans in a better position if we do need the nuke option. That way there was a clear attempt to reason with the other party, thus validating any needed changes to Senate rules. --AAK

[Bumblebee]

I always thought that the people who voted for Kerry, were voting against Bush. Can the people really be that dumb and not see through this guy? He was a joke. I thought Bush would win far more of the percentage he got, although, he did have more then 3 million of the poplular vote. Remember the Dems were trying to change the electoral vote to the poplular vote? Haven't heard a peep from them again about that.

[WhiteAfricanAmerican]

I don't know what you fellow cons are wigging out about?

Yes, I"m disappointed by the 7.
Yes, I'm sure that it's them trying to pave the way for a run at the WH in '08
Yes, the Nuke option should have been used.

But here's the thing, the Republicans are still hold the keys to detonating the nuke option.

If there's another filibuster, don't think for a moment Frist and company will not push the button.

All that's happened is that the Republicans have demonstrated their patience and mettle, while the Dems have demonstrated their purility and under-handedness.

Believe me, if Dingy Harry runs this gauntlet again, he will not make it to the other side, and the American people will not shed a tear when he is knocked off either.

[Avid_Liberal_Hater]

I would have to say my converstion was something gradual. Everyone is born a liberal.

I disagree. I've always been conservative, long before I actually knew a conservative from a liberal or a Repub. from a Dim.

[KenHorse]

It should be obvious to any intellectually honest person that the Dems are willing to hurt the US in order to "get" GW Bush. That is ALL it comes down to. Oppose, obstruct and do ANYTHING in order to prevent GW from moving forward. The US be damned and they're trying their best to make sure that happens.

Whether that's stalling (not fillibustering - the Dems are NOT fillibustering in any sense of the word) judicial nominees or this never ending bullshit over Gitmo and Abu Ghrab, the Dems don't care. Get GW and regain power at any cost.

Every single member of the Dem leadership should be charged with sedition and the Repubs need to stop this pussyfooting around. Unfortunately, as brazen as the Dems are in this regard, the Republicans allow themselves to continued to be pussy whipped by 'em. Make no mistake, we should be at war with the Dems every bit as much as we are with the Islamo-facsists.

We, as American Conservatives, have got to take a stand.