The Omnivore's Dilemma

[Peace_by_superior _power]

I stole this book off my little brother. In two days I have gone through 150 pages and all I can say is it is great. Aside from learning why we eat what we eat it goes into depth on how its made. I say made because nothing, or very little is actually grown. From a purely selfish point of view you can see that we are really putting crap in our bodies. If you eat meat that is pretty much litteral because cows, pigs, and chickens all sit in their shit. This gets processed and then you eat it. I'm not trying to be holier than thou because I have too, but I am just making an observation. If you think "organic" is the solution it really isnt. For the most part it's as factory farm as industrial farming. I'm not talking about sustainability or anything, but we have a lot of pride to think we have tamed nature because in reality we have not. Sure we can rein it in for a little bit, but eventually the hormones, antibiotics, and chemicals will come back to bite us in the butt. We are building and creating newer and better viruses in these animals and since, especially in cows, we are making their bodies like ours soon we will not be able to resist these new strains. Next is the damage we do to the fertility of the land. Eventually with the amount of pressure we put on the land we will need more and more fertilizers to even get to the regular yields we do now. It's just a downward spiral.

Oh ya and according to the UN 1 billion suffer from over nutrition while 800 million suffer from malnutrition. Makes you wonder if something is wrong.

[Peace_by_superior _power]

Paragraphs- you should consider using them.

Commas, you should try using them. Lets keep it relevant.

[FKLBRLS]

As always, too much of a good thing is bad. Animal growth hormones and corn-fed cattle are sure to make our food terrible. However, I support genetically-engineering fruits and vegetables because it can make them resistant to disease or parasites, increase crop yield, and create new foods, all without the treatment of harmful chemicals. Genetically-engineered crops go back at least a century, for many of the fruits we enjoy now are based on cross-breeding, a form of genetic engineering; the Fuerte avocado, the Valencia orange, the boysenberry, and others didn't exist before 1900. Who knows, maybe crops can be engineered to grow in worse soil or different climatic conditions. Perhaps there could be wheat crops that can grow with little irrigation in the desert, or oranges that can survive a freezing climate.

But as for altering our animal-based foodstuffs, that will cause more problems than it solves. Unlike with plants, the reproduction of animals cannot be extensively controlled. Therefore, the genetic makeup of meat is never altered, but the animals are "engineered" in after-the-fact, non-genetic ways. Like with steroids, or antibiotics. All these are substances that can potentially affect humans. However, eating a boysenberry or hybridized corn is just as safe as eating a blackberry or "regular" corn, because their genetics don't carry lasting effects like chemicals do.

[FKLBRLS]

"Organic" food is a joke. To "save" us from the "evils of pesticides," organic food will subject us to plant-borne diseases and parasites that otherwise would be killed. And we're throwing away even more money for food just to have that opportunity.

As for "overnutrition," I cannot stand how so many foods are being "enriched with 'essential' vitamins and minerals. It seems that you can't even buy a bottle of juice without it saying "Now with more Calcium!" or "Now with more Vitamin D! Hooray!" Pretty soon I'm going to pick up a can of Coke and it will say "Now with more vitamins and added calcium!" Oh wait, they already have something like that in the form of Diet Coke Plus.

[Peace_by_superior _power]

I can say I know very well of the effects of RBGH in milk as I have worked with it in a dairy. To say the least its not pretty what it does to the cow, but worst of all is if it is in the cow its in the milk. I would say growth hormones are bad which is why professional sports ban them. A cow is a much bigger animal than a person so I can think they must be bad for us too.

[Peace_by_superior _power]

"Organic" food is a joke. To "save" us from the "evils of pesticides," organic food will subject us to plant-borne diseases and parasites that otherwise would be killed. And we're throwing away even more money for food just to have that opportunity.

As for "overnutrition," I cannot stand how so many foods are being "enriched with 'essential' vitamins and minerals. It seems that you can't even buy a bottle of juice without it saying "Now with more Calcium!" or "Now with more Vitamin D! Hooray!" Pretty soon I'm going to pick up a can of Coke and it will say "Now with more vitamins and added calcium!" Oh wait, they already have something like that in the form of Diet Coke Plus.

The HFCS in coke is a killer. Not only is terrible for you it has mercury in it.\

As for the evils of pesticide, how do you think they did it before petroleum? We may have only gotten 20 bushels per acre (we get about 200 now), but we made it just fine.

[FKLBRLS]

The HFCS in coke is a killer. Not only is terrible for you it has mercury in it.\
High-fructose corn syrup in ANYTHING has killer mercury in it. And it's only a relatively recent invention, before the 1980s Coke was made with sugar. In fact, the US is the ONLY country in which Coke contains HFCS, everywhere else, it's bottled with sugar. You can buy Coca-Cola from Mexico in 24-packs at Costco. It's expensive, but it comes in glass bottles and contains real sugar. The difference in taste is fantastic.

HFCS is one example of people creating a worse problem than what they started with. We all complained about how "terrible" sugar was, so HFCS was offered as a replacement. Now, it seems that sugar wasn't all that bad compared to HFCS. It's like what happened when somebody erroneously declared margerine to be healthier than butter.

[Topiary Lady]

Paragraphs- you should consider using them.

Genuine charachter - you should consider using it. That or just go back to internet dating garbage.

[shotdrops286]

I can say I know very well of the effects of RBGH in milk as I have worked with it in a dairy. To say the least its not pretty what it does to the cow, but worst of all is if it is in the cow its in the milk. I would say growth hormones are bad which is why professional sports ban them. A cow is a much bigger animal than a person so I can think they must be bad for us too.

I read a report on milk that had a very detailed description of certain things.. needless to say i swore off milk for a while and now only drink organic milk.

[RightisRightLeftisWrong]

Hmm this just makes me want to eat more meat.

[Peace_by_superior _power]

I read a report on milk that had a very detailed description of certain things.. needless to say i swore off milk for a while and now only drink organic milk.

You would think organic would be better, but it is not necessary. Since I am more familiar with Illinois laws I will use that as my example. In Illinois the milk we sell must have no more than 750,000 somatic cells per million parts. A somatic cell is pretty much dead cells. They provide no nutritional value and make the milk look and taste different, most major brands use whitners in their milk so that says alot. The average you will get from Deans or Fieldcrest (these are the major brands here) is between 350,000 and 500,000 somatic cells per million.

This is where it gets interesting. To be certified as organic for milk a cow may not be treated with antibiotics, if they are they must be nursed back to health and kept out of the milking herds for no less than two years. This means cows that get sick continue to produce milk until they reach that 750,000 cells per million mark. At that point, and this is certainly not the case for every farm, they are removed from the herd and treated with antibiotics. Grosses me out, but so does what RBGH and and other hormones and antibiotics do to cows and their milk. :mad:

Edit: I work part time as a manager at a dairy, thats how I get my facts. :)

[Dr. Madd]

Paragraphs- you should consider using them.

Staying on subject- try it.

[Dr. Madd]

Harb: I'd stand down if I were you. You've come in here insulting people.. Well, this is what happens.

[FKLBRLS]

Anybody know what's up this bitch's ass?
Wow, I almost responded to your post too. Glad I didn't. This will be hilarious and entertaining to watch...the wrath of TL is about to be invoked...calling a moderator a "bitch" isn't going to earn you many points around here. This isn't the "comment" section of a Youtube video, where you can be as much of a trollish ass as you want. We don't take kindly to bullshit like that here. And don't even get me started if I find out you're affiliated with any site with "chan" in its name, or with Anonymous.

[LoggerLee]

Bu-bye Harbinger,I got back just in time to see you leave.

[FKLBRLS]

I work part time as a manager at a dairy, thats how I get my facts.
How'd you ever manage getting that job? All the managers I've worked for were in their mid-20s to mid-30s, and that was just at a restaurant, not a DAIRY! I'm like a year younger than you and I'm jumping through hoops just trying to get a job stocking shelves at Walmart. A Walmart that, I might add, is needing to hire many new employees as it transitions into a Supercenter.

I can't help but get a little envious when I talk to people around my age who have jobs in part-time management, or desk jobs, or golf-course jobs (which pay well over minimum-wage), or even serving jobs (in this state, $8 an hour + tips is a good deal).

It sounds like you have at least a decent job, which means a lot in this economy.

[Peace_by_superior _power]

I work at an ice cream store/dairy. I dont milk cows or anything like that. I dont think I have ever even been on a real farm.

Dont get envious go out there and get what you want. While I am glad to have a good job with plenty of hours and decent pay, the sky really is the limit (no pun intended). I almost got an internship working at McDonalds corporate hq, but I got the same bs that I have gotten every where else. Jobs want more experience and I just turned 20 not even a month ago and I just passed my sophmore year. The way I figure it is I will shovel shit from another year and then take full advantages of my connections that I am fortunate to have. My dad works for Baxter, a medical company, and my aunt is a lawyer for Berkshire Hathaway. I talked to both and they said they could do something for me when I became a junior. I take what I do now in full stride and use it as a learning experience to learn how to manage people as well how to talk to people.

Plus your young dont worry too much about the future. All that stress will just add wrinkles which will make you stress about more wrinkles. Its a terrible cycle to get into. :icon_mrgr

[FKLBRLS]

I work at an ice cream store/dairy. I dont milk cows or anything like that. I dont think I have ever even been on a real farm.
Oooh, so by dairy you just mean a place where people buy milk products. When you said "dairy," I thought you meant the big processing plant where milk comes in from the farms and gets turned into milk, ice cream, etc. That was my misunderstanding. I was thinking, "there's no way you can be 20 and be a manager at a milk factory."

I almost got an internship working at McDonalds corporate hq, but I got the same bs that I have gotten every where else. Jobs want more experience and I just turned 20 not even a month ago and I just passed my sophmore year.
Ugh, I HATE that. Everyone wants "experience," but none are willing to let you gain that experience, even if it's a shit job. That's why I was utterly surprised when I got my current job without having any contacts.

But I'm sure you didn't start out as a part-time manager. What did you have that your employer thought made you management material?

I'd love to increase my position, but it's incredibly difficult to do so because to get a promotion or a better job, I'd have to be a savant-like professional at my current job, which I don't like, nor am I amazingly good at. The only "learning experience" I get is learning what I DON'T want to do for a living.

I guess you could say I'm a bit of a pessimist...

[shotdrops286]

You would think organic would be better, but it is not necessary. yeah its not much better but its a little better, plus it taste better. I drink a glass of milk at night because the cassein protein is longer lasting and helps my body to not break down while sleeping, and i would hate to switch to protein powder

[Dr. Madd]

Dr. Madd: I came in here insulting noone. I posted a news article and Topiary Lady went on the attack.

You attacked someone's wall of text. uncool.

[Peace_by_superior _power]

Ugh, I HATE that. Everyone wants "experience," but none are willing to let you gain that experience, even if it's a shit job. That's why I was utterly surprised when I got my current job without having any contacts.


I have had one job my whole life. Since I was 16 I worked at this place. My first day of work went like this, the manager asked if I could use a diswasher and then showed me how to use it. It was not very fun.

If you want to get ahead, especially in these rough times, you need to take pride in your work and do your best. Your boss will take notice. Also step up and take leadership roles. If new people are hired you can train them or if there are problems getting what you sell to the customer after they order you can work with your manager to make a more efficient system.

[san clemente]

I have had one job my whole life. Since I was 16 I worked at this place. My first day of work went like this, the manager asked if I could use a diswasher and then showed me how to use it. It was not very fun.

If you want to get ahead, especially in these rough times, you need to take pride in your work and do your best. Your boss will take notice. Also step up and take leadership roles. If new people are hired you can train them or if there are problems getting what you sell to the customer after they order you can work with your manager to make a more efficient system.

You hit the nail on the head there Peace. When I was in restaurants I promoted those who I believed in. They were the ones who were on time, well groomed, did not need to be asked twice, performed well and kept a positive attitude. Pretty simple formula really.

[Topiary Lady]

The key to a healthy diet is to eat as many simple and pure foods as you can. And don't over-stress about food. You could eat the healthiest things possible, but if you're stressed over your diet, it won't really help you all that much.

Limit the animal products and focus on the fresh produce.

[FKLBRLS]

So, FKLBRLS, you have no intention of citing your sources or backing up your claims?

Demonstrate how "Animal growth hormones and corn-fed cattle are sure to make our food terrible" and cite a source for your assertion that all HFCS has mercury in it.
Normally I wouldn't respond to a troll like yourself, but since you're being impatient and equating my being at work all day to a "retraction," here's your sources:

Mercury in HFCS (http://ehjournal.net/content/8/1/2)

Animal growth hormones are suspected to induce early-onset puberty in girls. I don't need to cite a source for this one, if you need one so damn badly, get off your ass and look for one yourself. Furthermore, I'm not the only one who's railing against animal growth hormones in milk, you could've argued PBSP or Shotty and asked them why animal growth hormones are bad.

Cattle are supposed to eat grass, not corn. Corn is a high-starch food that's used to fatten them up faster. A corn fed cow is like somone eating nothing but fast food for months on end in order to become as massive as possible. The problem is, corn-fed beef is usually cheaper, crappier, and fattier.

[FKLBRLS]

You hit the nail on the head there Peace. When I was in restaurants I promoted those who I believed in. They were the ones who were on time, well groomed, did not need to be asked twice, performed well and kept a positive attitude. Pretty simple formula really.
In theory, that's how it should work. That's the attitude I had when I was 16. Today, I'm always on time, well groomed, don't need to be asked twice, and I take great effort to perform well. My attitude isn't always postive if I run into problems that affect my performance or my perception by the management. I've also never been good at expressing emotion, good or bad. While that's a good thing because if something in the back pisses me off, I won't reflect that to the customer. The downside is that I'm not exactly the most contagiously-upbeat person either. I try to chat with the customers when appropriate, but I'm certainly not like that overly-ubeat server on Office Space who had a happy stick up his ass.

The problem, in my view, is my performance. I'm probably not the fastest dishwasher or busser, and I've already broken stuff. I dropped a piece of pie in the kitchen and it sent pieces of plate everywhere. It pretty much ruined my entire day afterword. I kept thinking the owner/manager was trying to imply that I was either being too slow or not prioritizing correctly. She got on my case because I went to a table but forgot to fill one of their drinks. In my experience, managers don't care about, pay attention to, or remember good performance; they only remember when you screw something up.

Growing up I was taught that being successful in school and getting good grades would help me later in life. While that may work for college, it most certainly does NOT work for college jobs. Because I spent all my time and energy on academics, I'm ill-suited to physical labor. I'd love to have some kind of management role where I can work with scheduling, accounting, or maintaining the supply inventory. But to get to that point, I'd have to become a professional at something that isn't, and will never be, my forte.